Episode 87 | How Durable Grits Are Made, MPP Turbo Armor Grit, PB Apes Zen, Engage Axiom

[00:00:04] What is up nerds? Welcome back to episode 87 of the The Pickleball Pursuit Podcast. We got Mama and Papa PP back. We're here. We got some stuff to talk about. Justin's finally going to answer y'all's questions about how different durable grits are made. We're going to talk about the MPP Turbos. We're going to talk about the Apes Zen and a Gen 3 paddle from Engage. And we're going to jump into some other stuff. But Justin, how you been, man?

[00:00:31] It's been, we took a week off. Everybody was asking for us. They've been craving the The Pickleball Pursuit Podcastcast. The Pickleball Pursuit Podcastcast. But you know, let's give it to him, man. Let's give it to him. Yeah. Yeah. I was out of state last week for work. So that's why we usually whenever we skip is because we're traveling. One of us is traveling somewhere. Yeah. So or crazy busy with work. Next week, I might be gone as well. I'm going to Arizona for the PPA. I can't remember though.

[00:01:01] when I'm headed out there. So we might actually be able to do it. We might have a podcast next week. Who knows? Who knows? You never know. Episode 87, dude. Do you think we're going to get 100 this year? We could. Probably not. What's that? Yeah. What? We have. Yeah. I think we can do it. Even if we skip a few. And then, of course, it's Holland. It's going to be close. It's going to be real close.

[00:01:27] We'll have to figure out what we're going to do. It's going to be close. It's going to be close. It's going to be close. Yeah. Nine. Yeah. Yeah. We could do it. That's 16 weeks. 16 weeks to do 13 podcasts. 14? 14? Who knows? Hey, man. It could be New Year. New Year. 100 episode. We could just go to 100 at the beginning, at the end of this year and then quit. And then that's it. Or just quit right now. We could just go to the end of this year and then we. I'll turn it off.

[00:01:56] All right. Let's quit recording. Yeah. I'm done. All right. I want a divorce. Well, we got a bunch of stuff to talk about. I played in the heat this morning. I am cooked. I don't know how people do that or why people choose to play outside when you have perfectly good indoor courts available to you. If you don't, I understand. I get it. But I did have a lot of fun.

[00:02:19] All right. Let's talk about probably the hottest topic right now, which is the MPP turbos with their armor grit. Justin, you haven't played with yours. I played with the hybrid a lot. I got my hybrid right here. Played a bunch with this. I've probably played 10 games and then a drill session. Maybe a drill session and a half now that I think about it.

[00:02:48] And elongated are so close. They're so close. Yeah, but I like that. So insanely close. Like even the width is very, very similar. I played with the elongated today and that was the only play session I've played with it. I've played three games with it. So this will be a good test to see how the wear is on both of these. And then I also have the wide body down here that I can compare to the grit as well.

[00:03:15] So the hot topic is this is not a tier one grit, according to John Q. And Enhance obviously famously marketed it as a tier one grit based on them getting it tested by the independent, not independent lab, the manufacturers in China at the factory.

[00:03:37] And we all know those manufacturers can they like to tell you anything positive to get you to buy the paddles, you know, to create them, you know, make them. And Justin, you know, far better than me. But at the end of the day, they the factories are a business and they are trying to sell paddles. They're trying to make paddles for companies as many paddles as they possibly can be. Of course, they're going to say, yeah, dude, we tested it. Tier one didn't lose any spin.

[00:04:05] Now, I'm not saying that it's not necessarily that's false, you know, but Justin and I, we're going to we're going to test it out. Justin did us a little hillbilly drilly today and he has some results. I'm going to feel mine. I'm gonna do the field test and see how they have where shown where. But before we get there, let's just talk about playability.

[00:04:26] I did notice that I think my MPP turbo original hybrid is a little different because it feels slightly different than all three of these units. And it feels slightly different from the elongated and the wide body original MPP turbo have. But that could be the fact that I played more with it and broke it in MPP, as Justin has talked about, is known for continuously breaking in over time.

[00:04:56] So that could be something to do with it. But based on that, the MPP turbo with the armor grit feel slightly stiffer than my hybrid shape, but they feel very similar to my elongated and wide body. So with that being said, probably not a huge difference, if any, in terms of feel. So all you're getting really different about this battle is the grid itself. Playability? Awesome. Feel really good. Enjoy it.

[00:05:26] If you like MPP, you're gonna love the feel of these. Now, the grit texture is noticeably way rougher than the original MPP turbos. So in theory, you should expect to have a better ability to generate spin. And we'll talk about that, if that's the case or not, in just a few minutes. But I think that overall, the playability, you're getting exactly what you're getting with the original MPP turbos, which is a good thing.

[00:05:56] That was kind of my main concern. I was worried, you know, is a durable grit texture going to change the feel, change the performance of the paddle? Because if it does, then, you know, that's kind of a negative thing. You know, we don't want paddles to have durable grits and just sacrifice the feel. Because that's, at the end of the day, kind of sucks, you know. Obviously, people get over it because durability in the grid is probably more important than having the perfect feel.

[00:06:21] You know, if you have 95% of the feel preference that you like, but a durable grit texture, I think that 5% sacrifice is worth it. But overall, felt like these played really well. Sweet spots were good. They're stiff. They're hollow. And I thought they spun the ball pretty well. There's been some people saying that they don't feel like they spin very well. Mine felt fine. John obviously did his accelerated wear test and found that they were tier 4 in his testing,

[00:06:51] which would put them in line with just traditional peel ply. So, not a long-lasting grit texture. So, Justin, why don't you talk about your hillbilly drilly test? And I'll do the little feel test. Let's get a little analytical here. I want to, first, I want to make a disclaimer or be as fair as I can to the Enhanced guys. Because they're cool dudes and they've been communicating very clearly. Yes.

[00:07:18] So, they initially sent out an email when these were coming to us saying a couple things that are interesting. Number one, these are USAP approved under the new spin test, RPM test. Technically, anything that gets approved under that new RPM test shouldn't be on the approved list until October 1st. That's what USAP themselves said. They said you could submit early, July 15th, but then it will go live on October 1st. However, these already went live on the list.

[00:07:48] That's not an enhanced problem. That's USAP doing that. As far as I'm concerned, they're on the USAP list. You can go right now. So, they're approved. I just thought that was interesting. Wanted to share that. Yeah, that is interesting. The other thing is, like I said, these guys have communicated to us really well everything. The initial email they sent out saying, hey, they're on the way. You know, it's just our MPP Turbo. They did say there's a slight tweak with the core density. So, maybe that's the field difference that you're feeling. And then, of course, there is the new Armagret technology.

[00:08:17] And then they included a data sheet that was from their supplier, their manufacturer, that showed they essentially tried to run the same methodology as John's wear test with firing the cannon. And it scored tier one, right, based on the percentage loss of RPM. So, that's the information that they had. The criticism there is exactly what you said.

[00:08:43] Yeah, the manufacturer who's selling the paddle, of course, like, you got to get this stuff independently tested. And that's just how it is in the industry. I can't tell you how many. I mean, it's probably under 10, but it's going to be close to 10. There's been different times now in the past year that factories have been like, oh, we solved it. We have a durable grit. It's tier one. And then, you know, we're like, okay, great. Let's test the sample. We test the sample and it's not. Yeah.

[00:09:12] There has been exactly one time a factory has said that. And then, in independent testing, that has actually held up true. One time that someone said, we have something. It's tier one. The RPM doesn't fade. And that was true. So, every other time that it's been said by a manufacturer, at least to me, and this is probably roughly eight or nine times, hasn't been the case. But I also can't blame them. Like you said, this is their business.

[00:09:39] And even beyond that, it may be that they believe what they're saying, that their testing methodology isn't very good. And John mentioned this, too. The cannon that John has is super accurate. When it's firing these 100 shots at the paddle, it's literally every single ball is hitting the exact same spot. We're talking about the size of like a dime. Every time. Every time. Every time. So, you can imagine 100 shots in a small area like that is going to significantly wear that specific spot.

[00:10:06] However, if the cannons that the factories have, and I've seen some of these, are less accurate, and now we say we move the impact zone to, I don't know, the size of a pickleball instead of the size of a dime. You know, now you're spreading out that wear over really a surface area that's maybe 10 times more or something like that. So, you would get 10 times less wear. So, it could be that the testing methodology isn't up to snuff. I don't know.

[00:10:35] Regardless, and then to go on about their communication, since the videos, you know, from John and from Chris have come out, the, you know, Drew and the enhanced guys have been super responsive saying, you know, this isn't at all what we expected. We've been testing these for months. And they're very good players in their own right. So, like, I believe them. If they're saying they're playing with paddles and the spin has been good and it hasn't been wearing, I believe them. Because they're probably better players than us. And they know how to test paddles.

[00:11:04] They've made great paddles now for over a year. They've been making, like, banger after banger, basically, since the duo. So, I don't doubt them as people. I think what they reported to us and what they, you know, what had reported to them is all kosher. They all believed it. So, I don't think it was any type of, like, misrepresentation or bad marketing. Now, this situation sucks regardless because now they thought they had one thing. They're telling us they had one thing. And then maybe it's getting in the hands of people and there's mixed reactions.

[00:11:34] We'll say that. Okay. I just wanted to say all that to be fair to everybody. And now to add on one more thing, do you think that there's potential that there is issues in the production of the paddles that could lead to less durable grit than what they tested? I'm sure that's probably a lot less likely. I mean, the method, and I'll get into this more in Nerdtown.

[00:11:59] I mean, I'm guessing, but it's a very educated guess, is, you know, by looking at the microscope and just what I've seen, that this is a sprayed-on coating. There could be some small bits of inconsistency with that, but really when you look at all three of these paddles on both sides, it's pretty consistent, right? Yeah. Now, what are they spraying?

[00:12:23] You know, I would think there would not be any inconsistencies there because it's likely, you know, one thing that they're buying in buckets or tubs or whatever that they hook up to their spray machine and they're just spraying it over and over again. You wouldn't think there'd be variants from one bucket to the next. Now, if they're making some mix themselves of different materials, then maybe. Yeah. So it's possible, but unlikely that the application method is what's messing this up here. But I don't know. Really hard to say.

[00:12:53] I'm writing a note now because, like you said, I'm going to go into a lot more of this in Nerdtown. I'll talk about sprayed-on coatings and maybe the problems and challenges with them. Okay. Okay. So I haven't played with these yet because I just got back from being out of state for a while, but I did want to make sure and bring some value. So this morning before the podcast, I did what you were calling the hillbilly drilly test, which is, for those of you who don't know, basically it's an actual drill with a ball on it.

[00:13:22] um, and it spins the ball at 1500 RPMs. And then I have a clamp system set up and you see this little circle here. I have a clamp system set up that holds the paddle still and holds the drill. And then when you close the clamp, it puts roughly five pounds of pressure on the ball directly on the face and then, uh, spins the drill. The drill spins the ball at 1500 RPMs with five pounds of pressure in the same spot. And I'll do that for 30 seconds and then I'll stop. I'll clean off the ball dust.

[00:13:51] If there's any, uh, look at it under the microscope, do it again for a minute. Same thing. Do it again for a minute. So the full time is two and a half minutes of this, um, where, however, I'm kind of checking in between. And most of the time with most grits, I would say like 70 to 80% of the damage happens in the first 30 seconds. And then the following one minute and then two minutes. Yeah, it makes it worse. But in most cases, it's like, it was already bad.

[00:14:21] If it's bad after 30 seconds, it's bad. And if it's good after 30 seconds, it's probably going to hold up. But anyway, I'll continue doing it that way. And that kind of, that checks out with a lot of other people's, um, where testing it's like the initial few hits is what you see the most degradation in. Uh, and then it kind of tails off typically. And right. And then this is very non-scientific. I know this.

[00:14:45] I'm not saying this is perfect and it's not better than any of the other tests that are being done because, um, the way that I can tell good or bad is literally by looking at it under the microscope, looking at it with my, you know, naked eye and also feeling it with my hand, which is pretty sensitive. I did have a stare at a roughness thing, but it was so insanely inconsistent. I'm telling you feeling it with my hand is more reliable than the stare at as crazy as that sounds. Did I talk about the stare at on the last podcast about how I went to that? Okay. Yeah.

[00:15:14] I just want to make sure I, I felt like I forgot about that. Yeah, go ahead. Um, so anyway, and then of course at this point I have quite a bit of references cause I've done this to so many paddles, various types of grits, uh, both publicly released and not. And then of course peel ply paddles. And, and this is something we said on this podcast and you say in your reviews, the tier system is not something that we do. There's no like tier one, two or three or four. It's literally, you got peel ply, you got longer lasting.

[00:15:43] Does it last longer than peel ply? And you got permanent. That's it. And of course the permanent grits, there's very few of them and y'all know what they are. They're the best. So anything in between peel ply and permanent is just, we call longer lasting grit. You can tell it lasts longer. Um, so all that said, how did this hold up on the hillbilly drilly tests? Not great. Basically just like peel ply. Yeah.

[00:16:07] So, um, I don't even know if you'll be able to even see it, but I'll try to catch it in the light inside this circles where it wears. It's literally, it's so smooth. It's shiny. It's reflective. Um, I'll try to like catch the light anyway. You may or may not be able to see that, but that's exactly what happens to basically all peel ply paddles. They get so smooth that they, they shine. Now, is this just a problem with this batch that was sent out to reviewers? Um, there was only a batch of 40 apparently.

[00:16:35] Um, so it could be that. And the guys at enhance know that. And they've said publicly, look, we're addressing this before the public launch. And if that delays the public launch, sorry, not sorry, because it's better to do it. Right. Right. You know, even if that means a small bit of delay for the customers. So hopefully everything goes as planned and they take care of it and their manufacturer, you know, steps up and figures out what's going on. And then by the time these make it to the public, you guys don't have this problem and you at least

[00:17:03] have a longer lasting grit and not just a, you know, peel ply that feels rougher is basically what it is right now. Um, so, so yeah, that's my, I still will play with them by the way, because I do want to know how they, how spinny does it feel, um, in comparison to the other paddles I play with. So we'll probably revisit these. And of course, any information that comes from enhance, um, or anywhere else, you know, trustworthy source, I'm sure we're going to revisit and talk about these some more.

[00:17:31] Well, I'm going to do a little field test and just kind of update y'all on how mine are holding up after I'm going to start with the, uh, wide body, which I have not play with. So this'll be kind of like my baseline. And then I'll feel the throat of each of those paddles too, to kind of, uh, give it a baseline as well, but very, very rough, extremely rough grit texture. We're going to go to the throat of the MPP turbo hybrid. Very similar.

[00:17:57] Um, and the sweet spot, I mean, there's, there is where, but it's not like a massive, it's, it's noticeable. I'd say probably a, a 5% drop in surface roughness, maybe slightly more. How many games you said? Like 10 games, 10 games and a drill session. Okay. Yeah. The sweet spot is definitely, you know, smoother.

[00:18:26] Um, but it's still got quite a bit of surface roughness to it. Um, and then let me feel the elongated. I'm gonna go forehand cause I primarily was hitting a lot of forehand shots today. Okay. This one about the same amount of where, um, so it seems to fall off quick, uh, as, as you said, which checks out.

[00:18:51] So there is some where, but it's not, if I would have, if someone would have asked me what tier I thought that's what I've got, I would have imagined two or three, you know, I would imagine this is still a longer lasting grit texture. Um, right. But obviously still need to play with it more to really confirm that. But that's just how mine are holding up. Um, I'm going to do the thing that, uh, Chris did on his Instagram story, which is basically Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. We wanted to, this is like a home.

[00:19:19] This is a, not as an insult to Chris, but this is like a homeschool coefficient of friction. This is the original MPP turbo. This is the arm regret. And then this is hex grip. And if you just like kind of press down and then try to drag the ball, you'll be able to intuitively feel how much resistance there is. Right. Hmm. Wow. This is riveting for the listeners, by the way. Wow.

[00:19:46] Um, and I don't know if yours is the same as mine. I would say hex grit, most grabby old MPP turbo peel ply, just slightly less grabby actually. And then armor grit, definitely the most slick, you know, what do you think? What'd you notice? All right. So I did spit fire. Let me grab a, let me grab a hex grit real quick.

[00:20:18] And, um, as far as ball dust goes, the actual, the old peel ply one made the most ball dust out of all three. Isn't that funny? That is pretty funny. Uh, I don't really feel much of a difference if I'm being honest. Good. Yeah. I mean, honestly, this hex grit to me feels maybe the slickest, which is, doesn't check out.

[00:20:48] Eh, I would say my elongate is elongated is slightly more slick than the, uh, the armor grit that, yeah, of the armor grit than the hex grit, but nothing that jumps out as like, oh my God, that feels way different. But listen, if you guys want science, go watch John. This ain't it, baby. But, uh, there is a paddle that I do feel like slides a little bit, um, which we're going to talk about next.

[00:21:19] Pickleball Apes Zen. Um, let me feel this first and then we'll talk about playability. Yeah. I mean, that's definitely, by the way, but I did definitely the slickest of the, uh, of the two or of the three, excuse me. Um, but anyway, y'all been asking for me to give you all my thoughts on this paddle. And, uh, first of all, let me say that even though this has a slicker feeling, uh, grit texture, I felt like it spun.

[00:21:48] Well, I mean, I'll watch back footage. I recall thinking that it spun the ball. Well, not elite. Um, I would say good spin. Um, and I didn't have any issues with it, but this battle is. Crazy. Like this is one of the craziest feeling paddles I've ever felt. Literally think of the frozen inferno, but dial it up to 10. Like it is way more powerful, way less predictable.

[00:22:17] I keep getting so many comments of people being like, I don't have any issues. What level do you play? Uh, and I'm just like, man, I get it. Like y'all, y'all like it, but I'm telling you how I truly feel about it. Um, it's, this is another issue that a lot of reviewers see is people get paddles. They're the new shiny toy. People love them. They say they're amazing.

[00:22:45] We have differing opinions in them. And then two, three weeks later, people come back and be like, oh yeah, now I'm starting to see what you were saying about that paddle. It was tale as old as time. Um, I mean, it happened with the mark. There was like, people were like dogging us for saying it was very unpredictable and extremely powerful. And, uh, I don't know about unpredictable, but yeah.

[00:23:09] But, um, with that being said, I think that, uh, this is, this is not a paddle that is has great power, but amazing control. Like I think the control is actually, eh, it's not that not very predictable. Uh, it's nonlinear. It's got a crazy feel. So that even adds to the unpredictability. However, as I said in my short, this is a paddle that you have to learn how to play with.

[00:23:38] There's nothing about this paddle that is, you pick it up and it's unbelievably intuitive because nothing feels like it on the market apart from the frozen inferno. There's one paddle that's even in the same realm as this. This is like off the charts. Reminded me of my hybrid pack of fuse, which is very different than your elongated one. Like crazy hollow, crazy thonky, very bouncy. You got a crazy unit, bro.

[00:24:06] I can't wait to hit yours because mine feels nothing like yours. I got the two new ones, super stiff, obviously super hollow. Um, but not like a crazy, crazy feel. Like it feels like the movement. Yeah, I will. I will. Uh, it feels like the, the entire core is moving like in this paddle. Yeah. Yeah. As one unit. Like a piston. Yeah.

[00:24:36] Yeah. Pretty much. I'm sure that's the intentional design. Uh, yeah. So there, I'm looking forward to getting that one. Like I said, I pre-ordered it. There are some design elements in there that let's just say it should be obvious that I support from a design standpoint because there are multiple rings increasing in density. It reminds you of the, my F3 design. Uh-huh. There are, um, let's say tapered foams with a higher density in the neck.

[00:25:05] It was like, you know, it's thicker around the neck and then it gets thinner near the top, which is very similar to quite a few designs I've done. But specifically the Mavericks Havoc 3 was very much like that. Like a, which one that got thicker to thinner. Yeah. So those design concepts I'm on board with. Yeah. Um, and now how you describe it probably wouldn't be a paddle odd main. You know, I'm not into crazy, boingy, bouncy, what is unpredictable, you know, but maybe not.

[00:25:34] It's one of the most fun paddles I've ever played with. Like it's just, it's just wild feeling. Now look, if you want to win pickleball points, it's not fun at all. Uh, it's not a very fun paddle, but if you just want to do some, hit some crazy shots, have some crazy ass feeling paddle in your hand, it's about as fun as it gets. And it is so incredibly maneuverable. Uh, mine was, I think it was 106 and 7.0. Yeah, the metrics are crazy.

[00:26:04] Yeah. 106 swing weight, 7.0 twist weight. Um, but dude, this battle is wild. Um, in the right hands, it's a weapon just like the, the unmarked, not quite as crazy powerful, but, um, yeah, I mean, I think a lot of people who are high level players can do some serious damage with this paddle, but, um, yeah, I thought it was a solid paddle. Definitely their best paddle.

[00:26:29] It's just kind of challenging to, to dial in the, uh, control on this paddle. But you know, other people have disagreed with, you know, what I've said. So maybe I'm wrong. Maybe they're right. Um, also, I mean, I'm a stick by it. It's worth it. Yeah. It's probably worth it to mention that you and me and other reviewers have to constantly switch paddles. So when something's very different, very unique, that means, that means it's more challenging. Yeah.

[00:26:56] Versus someone else, if someone else picks this up and they just fall in love with the field cause it's super unique and they're like, Oh man, this is awesome. Then they could just take the time to adjust because you probably could adjust. Yeah. Oh yeah, for sure. And it would become easier to predict. And then that person doesn't have to swap through three paddles every week, you know? Um, and in that case, maybe some of that unpredictability is mitigated. So worth mentioning, uh, I think it's very cool that it's very unique. Good on them because there are so many paddles that are the same.

[00:27:26] Yeah. Uh, and I think the engineering looks really smart and Ivan, the owner at apes, he's talked openly and publicly about it. He's like very much still trying to improve it. He hasn't claimed that the grit is tier one. He claims that it's a better than pure play and still a work in progress. So yeah, I think if they, I'm curious to see coefficient friction, this would be a crazy spinning spinning paddle. Um, but the design is really cool too.

[00:27:55] Um, just looks wise. I think pickleball apes is one of the most underrated companies in terms of how, how much they push the envelope. Like almost every paddle that they've made is completely unique to the market. Um, apart from, well, no, I mean the charm was had that dice core. Nobody did that from recollection that I can think of. And then obviously this is crazy difference.

[00:28:20] So huge props to them for not just making the same boring paddle over and over again and slapping $300 on the price tag. Um, all right. Well, let's, uh, let's move on. We talked about a couple of solid paddles. We're going to move on to one more, uh, paddle that surprised me quite a bit. Um, very impressed with it, uh, is the axiom from engage.

[00:28:47] Now I said on the last podcast, I was testing the X two and that was a paddle. I liked a lot as well, but I didn't make a short about it. So if you want to hear my thoughts on that, uh, you can watch that short, but we're going to talk just about the axiom today because this is their new gen three with durable grit. And in my opinion, I think this is a all court paddle leaning power and it, uh, plays really well. The sweet spots noticeably better than most gen three paddles.

[00:29:17] Uh, attribute that to the full, you know, fully floating core. Um, you guys know how I feel about the Yola propulsion core and its lack of reactivity in the throat. I'm a big, big fan of, you know, throats that have reactive, you know, reactivity. Um, but, uh, with that being said, good paddle gets good spin. The durability on the grit texture is to be determined based on, you know, first place session.

[00:29:45] I feel no noticeable change, but it is a dual stamped USAP UPA paddle that did not go through the spin test, um, testing for USAP. So it's just, you know, a normal peel ply texture. It's not like super gritty. I would say this is very legal USAP grit, which, you know, a lot of these big companies, they have to play by the rules cause they are at, you know, uh, at more scrutiny because,

[00:30:14] uh, you know, more, more eyes on the brand. But with that being said, I think this is a solid paddle. Uh, I just, there's really nothing about this paddle that is like super unique in terms of playability and feel apart from Justin use this word to describe Gen 3 paddles. It's clicky. It's a very clicky feeling paddle. So if you like that about Gen 3 paddles, this might be one that is right up your alley.

[00:30:42] Um, can't remember what the price is on this, but you don't know what that means. It's like a very crisp plastic. Yeah. Yeah. At contact, which is honeycomb is plastic. So if you've been playing with a lot of foam paddles, you know, they don't feel that way. And then you go back to honeycomb paddles and you're like, ah, this feels like plastic on plastic, like a plastic ball hitting a plastic core.

[00:31:05] And I think a lot of Gen 3s, uh, can feel that way with the exception of the GBX Gen 3 doesn't feel very plasticky. And the RPM V2, the friction pro V2 is like a little bit more plush, but still has a little bit of that plastic in this, but it's not as like crispy. Yep.

[00:31:26] I, um, I played with the RPM V2 and this engage axiom in the same exact, uh, play session. And yeah, it didn't have as much of a enjoyable feel for me as someone who likes Gen 4. Uh, but for a lot of people who like Gen 3, they probably might favor the feel of this. Um, maybe, you know, but I think that V2 feels phenomenal.

[00:31:53] Uh, but I mean, that's comparing like legitimately the best feeling Gen 3 paddle to a really good feeling Gen 3 paddle. So, but, um, I think this was noticeably less powerful, noticeably less poppy and had a very similar sweet spot size, uh, as the V2, which in its, you know, on its own is really good. Uh, add a little weight and it's really, really solid. This was a pretty solid metrics as well.

[00:32:21] Stock 114 swing weight, 6.0 twist weight. So a little bit on the lighter end for swing weight and very much average for the twist weight. So add a little bit of a weight and it becomes a really forgiving paddle. I felt like the resets were so incredibly easy with this paddle. Um, it's 199 before code code proceed brings it down to 180, I believe. And, uh, they already have these available ready to go in the 16 and the 14 millimeter variants.

[00:32:50] This was the 16 for anybody who asks and thought it was good. Um, definitely a paddle that I enjoyed playing with, but, uh, you know, I prefer Gen 4 paddles just cause I don't want to have to worry about, uh, any potential core crushing or major changes, uh, over its lifespan. So well done engage, uh, that X2 also, that panel's pretty bad-ass. Um, sweet spot felt gigantic on that paddle. All right. Uh, that's really all we got for paddles.

[00:33:19] Justin, anything else on the engage before we move on, dude? All right, let's go. There, uh, I think you'd like the X2 a lot. Um, it's kind of like right in the center of the fuel wheel. It's not overly stiff or soft. I wrote myself a note. I think I'm gonna get one. Denser hollow. Yeah. Based on everything you said about it, so. Uh, I have the wide body if you wanted me to send it to you. I know you're not a wide body boy. Nah, bro.

[00:33:43] Uh, but, uh, yeah, solid paddles engages definitely, you know, back in the, you know, the talk of, uh, being, you know, up there in terms of paddles that have really good performance. You know, for a long time, engage was USA made only, which is cool. Yeah. Uh, but then I guess to kind of get with the times they started manufacturing in Asia and now we're sort of probably seeing the first wave of good paddles using their Asia manufacturing.

[00:34:11] But hey, you gotta get with the times if, uh, they're not able to keep up in the U S you know, there's a reason why so many things are manufactured in Asia because they're fucking good at it. Yeah. They're really damn good at it. Um, all right. Well, let's move on to a little sneaky peek. Um, tell us about a little head dude. All right. So there, there, I won't bury the lead here. There's one reason I want to talk about this is the head revolt pro 5.0.

[00:34:41] Um, I just got these. I played with them four times. Uh, those look a little cloudy. Do they? Yeah. Like that, uh, midfoot kind of the side, uh, on the, on the outside kind of looks like the, Oh, this part. Yeah. Well, here's the thing that the reason why I think this is important to share with the viewers. If you were a person who loved the gel res nine from Asics, which was me. Right.

[00:35:11] Uh, and a lot of people like these were like a cult classic shoe and then they stopped making them. They're really hard to find now. Um, but then they went to the gel res X or gel res 10 and it was such a massive departure. And I think that shoe sucks. Anyway, dude, this is the shoe. This is what the gel res 10 should have been. That's the shoe. No joke. Yeah. This is the one. What is the name of it again? Head radical. Revolt pro 5.0. My bad. Yeah. This is the one, these revolts. This is the 5.0.

[00:35:39] So this is a new one, but the fours and the 4.5. So the ones that Chris Olsen has been wearing for years. Remember he had like a 20 of them in his closet, 20 boxes of them. Cause you can get them for a really cheap. So it's not a new shoe. It's just this version of it, um, is pretty significantly updated and dude. So what happened was I got sent the head pickleball shoes and I talked about those on a few podcasts back and the quality of them was really good. They were really well made.

[00:36:09] They were really thoughtfully designed. However, those shoes were not for me. They're, they're really light, really flexible, really minimal. Not my thing. It's not a shoe that I like personally. I tend to lean towards like maximal issues. Like the gel res 9 is my main for a long time. You know, I wear the CG twos. So then I saw, I saw this on sale, the revolt 5.0. And this is the, this is heads maximal shoe. And I was like, okay, well I know they have really good quality and thoughtful design. And all this. And I had heard really good things. There was actually quite a lot of pickleball pros who wear these and a good amount of tennis pros too.

[00:36:39] Um, so I saw them on sale and I was like, I'm going to snag them. So I just bought these myself. They didn't send this to me. Um, and I seriously impressed. Like I wore them the first session out and whenever I wear a new shoe, I was just like take my CG twos with me and I rarely ever make it a full session. Yeah. I wore them the whole time and I was like, damn, damn. Right. Damn. So then I've been continuing to wear them and I, and then as like maybe the second session hit me, I was like, man, this is, this is gel rest nine vibes.

[00:37:09] And then, so when I came home that day, I pulled out my old gel rest nine, which are super worn, but, uh, I put on one of each just like, you know, jumped around and skittered around the house and kind of felt and felt the cushion. And I was like, yeah, dude, it's the same. It's like, it's the same DNA. The, you know, it's, I would say the heads are, have a little bit more heel toe drop, whereas the gel rest nines feel a little bit more flat. But other than that, the lateral stability, the containment, the durability, um, the comfort,

[00:37:39] they are so insanely comfortable. Uh, and the lockdown are all like excellent, really good. And I'm someone who's like, you know, we talked to this before. I'm really sensitive to kill slip because my Achilles, but I didn't even use the runner's knot. He's just a sensitive boy guys. I'm just sensitive. Um, and there are a couple, like I put blue mockers in these, so this feature doesn't work for me, but they do have this whole vent system in the bottom and then there are holes all the way through the shoe. And if you use a stock insole, there are holes all the way through.

[00:38:08] There's like a head thing. Just drill some holes in your blue mockers considering. Yeah. Ruin the, uh, support. But I mean, you can imagine, you can kind of see the thing here. Like, look, this hard dyna wall on the outside of the gel res, the revolts have this big piece here. There's the, you know, wrapping external heel counter paired with the internal heel counter for a super solid locked in heel. The heads have the same thing. The outsole is one big flat piece with flex grooves.

[00:38:38] I mean, there's a lot of similarities and I just know a lot of people I've seen online who were like, man, I love the gel resinines. I can't find them anymore. I hate the tens. What do I do? Try these. And I just looked right before this podcast. They were actually on sale at pickleball central for $79. Oh dang. Only in specific sizes though. So there were limited sizes. There are other colors too. The other colors are just, we're on sale for like one 21, one 30 or something like that. Outsole warranty? Yeah.

[00:39:07] Not only an outsole warranty, but head is one of the only brands I've seen that has a drag guard warranty. Dang. So six months outsole warranty, or if you wear through the drag guard and put an actual hole, that counts too. So there's a tow drag guard and outsole six month warranty. You get a replacement. But yeah, man, these shoes are. Just giving me more reason to love that dude. Very, very good. I can't love it anymore. Honestly. I couldn't. It's my favorite thing.

[00:39:37] Uh, here's the, here's the one downside. They're heavy. So they're 20 grams heavier than the gel res nine, but also 40 grams lighter than the gel res 10. Oh yeah. Those were like freaking bricks. So those are maybe even like compared to like budget shoes. This might be the worst shoes I've ever tried. They're terrible. I hated them too. I mean, I'm sure they're good for some. From like a flagship company too. Oof. Yeah, that was a miss.

[00:40:07] I mean, they gotta be good for some people like with Fred Flintstone feet, but for us like normal people. No. So I actually, I've been playing tennis a lot more recently. We've talked about it a couple of times. This is, these are the shoes that I'm wearing for tennis. Um, you're a tennis boy. Yeah. Just shockingly good. I'm going to keep wearing them. But anyway, I thought it was worth sharing specifically for the, all you people out here there who've been searching for your gel res nine, uh, spiritual successor. That's it.

[00:40:37] And you can find them on sale pretty regularly and they have that warranty. Love it. All right. Damn good. Well done. Uh, well done head. All right. Uh, let's talk about some balls. Went from head. Let's go to balls. Uh, we're going to start with the new Franklin X 40. And, uh, man, this ball is way different than the X 40.

[00:41:05] Uh, let's talk about complaints that we had with the X 40 first. Number one, you get a little skiddy bounces here and there kind of, it maintains its shape pretty well, but not amazing. Um, not as good as the lifetime obviously, but way better than the silk or way better than the, um, the, uh, Vulcan, you know? Yeah. As far as roundness goes, it was second only to lifetime. Yes. Yeah.

[00:41:32] But a distant second, in my opinion, uh, loved the pace of the ball. I thought the pace was perfect for indoor facilities, outdoor. Yeah. It, yeah, it slows down. Yeah. For the X 40. But, um, yeah, yeah. The, I think that was the main, you know, concerns people had was it's a little slower and it cracks out slow and then it gets really slow. Yeah. And then like, to me, it becomes unusable long before it cracks.

[00:42:00] Now I'm a person who plays outside basically a hundred percent of the time, but I told you this and I've said this before I had X 40s. I would be the guy who bought way too many of them, pulled out new ones at the beginning of every two hour session, played with them and then literally left them at the court. And people were like, you're bald. I'd be like, take it. I don't want it. So for me, after what a two hour session is like seven to 10 games, maybe that's it for me.

[00:42:26] After 10 times, I was like, this is, and maybe in a cooler environment indoor, it would still be useful, but no outside in Texas, it was just pure marshmallow. I hated it so much. So yeah. Now this on the X 40. Yeah, go ahead. Quite, quite the opposite. Uh, stays extremely round, uh, doesn't crack from what I've, you know, gathered great color.

[00:42:54] Uh, it is very reminiscent to the lifetime 48 with four less holes. It has that seam. Yeah. It's two piece, you know, two piece ball, very similar hole cut out. They're a little bit smaller, but they have that kind of rounded, um, I don't know, edges if you will. Yeah. The chain.

[00:43:15] And then, uh, I thought for me, I thought the X 44 was slightly bouncier and slightly faster than a one. When we're going new to new, I thought it was slightly bouncier and slightly faster than a new lifetime 48. Really? Um, nothing like just drastic, but just noticeable enough to be like, Oh damn, that was a, that

[00:43:41] one came off a little hotter than I was expecting and, uh, bounce a little higher than I was expecting. And I've seen some people do some drop tests and checks out. It bounces very slightly higher than the lifetime, but a new lifetime, in my opinion, not really worth playing with in a tournament. I think it needs to be broken in five or six games before it's really, in my opinion, in

[00:44:09] a state that, you know, can be used for competitive play and be used, I guess, to make the game more fun and more realistic and more, you know, in line with what people are expecting. I think the high bounces, the super high velocity is not the best thing. In my opinion, I think it, it leads to more boring points, quick points, lots of errors. Um, but that's my thoughts.

[00:44:36] I thought the, once it broke in, it was pretty solid, still a little, just barely hot for my liking. I've played seven or eight games with this one. Um, and I'd say it's on par with the lifetime in terms of break in speed and then decrease in overall bounce and velocity with its break in. Still think it probably is just a touch faster than the lifetime. So those are my thoughts. Justin, you're the ball snob.

[00:45:06] Why don't you go deep on how you feel about these? I'm going to show, I don't know. Hopefully the color shows. This is a brand new one. This is a two sessions old one. Um, maybe it'll focus. I don't know. It looks super blown out on my monitor, but maybe you'll be able to do it. Um, but, and then in comparison, a lifetime. So yeah, way better color in my opinion. Oh dude, it's not even close.

[00:45:34] Like the color of this X 44 compared to a lifetime miles better as someone with shitty eyes and has problems with, uh, you know, seeing the ball sometimes I was like, it's worth it. I'll, I'll switch right now, you know? Um, I have two sessions on, on this one too. So about four hours, uh, and it has not gone out around a single time. Nice. I haven't remembered any funky bounces and I'm going to say that. Sorry guys. Cracked.

[00:46:01] Um, so my experience with the speed, I would say is a little bit different than yours. I would say it's happens like, like this. Okay. This is a lifetime. Let me clarify one thing real fast. I play only indoor. Justin plays only outdoor. So for anybody who's listening, that is important information. I did one session indoor, one session outdoor. Oh, where'd she play indoor? Big dog. Private court. Oh, it's got AC too. So yeah. Yeah. It stays like 76 in there.

[00:46:31] Something like that. Yeah. Um, that's pretty good. My bad. Here was my experience. Okay. Let's say higher is faster. This is the X 44. This is a lifetime. And then lower is slower. Here's how the break in happened for me. X 44 starts bouncier than the lifetime. And then I felt like the lifetime, like dove and then leveled out here. And the Franklin more broken slowly and stayed like right there. So I think the X 44 stayed faster than a lifetime.

[00:47:00] If you keep it at the same exact spot, but like what you talked about, the first six games of a lifetime is a drastic difference. Game one to game seven. With the X 44, I felt like the difference was not as drastic game one to game seven. It was like a slower, more even break in. And then here's the second part. This ball and this plastic seems to be significantly more affected by the temperature than the lifetime

[00:47:26] plastic because there was a big difference in the 76 degree indoor temperature versus the 90 degree human outdoor temperature in that temperature outside the X 44. Now slower than the lifetime broken in X 44 broken in lifetime. We hit them back and forth. The X 44 was a little bit slower in the heat. Interesting. And, and then, so the next day I went back and hit with the ball machine and I didn't hit the whole time. But I was like, let me pull this ball back out inside in the air conditioner. And sure enough, I felt like it was fast again.

[00:47:55] So it seems to be that it's affected more by the temperature than the lifetime. I'll be very curious. We won't know for months, but I'll be curious how it performs in the cold because the X 40s crack really fast in the cold and the lifetimes, they will crack in the cold, but they don't crack nearly as quickly. And that's probably has something to do with the makeup and you can feel this. That's the other part that I'll mention. The feel of these balls is very different.

[00:48:22] The X 44 is more like a traditional plastic pickleball, whereas the lifetime has this feel that a lot of us have gotten used to, but it's a little bit rubbery. It's like just a little bit bouncy ball rubbery. You feel off the face. Clicky. This is clicky. It's 44 plasticky, clicky off the face, but it's not a bad thing. It's actually kind of more typical. It's like other pickleballs. The lifetime is the one that feels odd man out there. Both heavy and light.

[00:48:51] You know how like the lifetime this feels a slightly heavier, slightly rubbier, rubbier, rubberier. Wow. That was tough to say. Whew. These balls got a mouthful. But yeah, they felt a little lighter than the lifetime. Just very slight, but nothing like crazy. The actual weight on the scale isn't any lighter, but the feel of it is a little bit lighter.

[00:49:17] It feels like the lifetime like almost deforms more on contacts. That gives it like a heavier feel like it's pushing the paddle around a little bit more, whereas the X44 doesn't feel like it pushes the paddle back as much. Let me weigh them. I'm excited, man. Heavy weight them? Yeah. Yeah. Were they saying? They were like 26.7 grams or something for the X44 and like a 27 for the lifetime. It was really close. Nice. Is this the perfect ball?

[00:49:46] Can't be said yet. You know, I only have four hours on one. Dude, for me, just the color difference alone is super valuable. Indoors, I didn't care. Franklin X44, 25.9 grams and the lifetime 25.1. Well, now it's saying 25.2 grams. So 0.7 grams different, which is not a big deal. So one gram, I imagine that's probably within variance for manufacturing. They're mostly all around 26 grams.

[00:50:16] Yeah. So for me, indoor, I didn't really care that much about the lifetime's color. However, outdoor, I'm playing at 7 a.m. Right now, sunrise is like 7.07. So it's like, you know, kind of hard to see at times. We have lights, but still, it's not perfect lighting when you have like lights. It's also dawn and then the sun starts rising. The X44, oh my God. Like, I don't even care about the speed difference. The fact that I can just see the ball better made it so much better for me.

[00:50:44] I would choose it over the lifetime in that scenario 10 out of 10 times. Now, we can't say it's the best ball yet because temperature. You know, we don't see how much it changes in the cold. Does it hold up more? Like I said, I only have four hours on that one. So that's not enough to test that. Okay, so also while we're talking about this, there's another contender. So we know the lifetime has been the best ball.

[00:51:08] And it's been one of the first popular accepted balls that it's like a two-piece molded ball with more than 40 holes. Right? Then we see the Franklin. Two-piece ball, more than 40 holes. What do you know? Stays round. Performance is better. Another contender enters the ring. Now, this is a very used one, so don't judge the color. There are actually new ones coming. This is the Selkirk S2 Pro. So this is Selkirk's new ball.

[00:51:37] And I do have some more coming. And they said they've updated the color a little bit, so I imagine it would be a little bit brighter. This is the Franklin. The Franklin's just a touch brighter, but really it's not too different. This has two-piece molding, more than 40 holes, but it's kind of Selkirk style where it has these tiny holes in there like the S1. But get this out of the way. Compare this to the S1 ball. No comparison. That ball's trash. It's so bad. Selkirk skip, baby. Yeah. It feels like a rock. It skips.

[00:52:06] It literally eggs immediately. It's horrible. The only good thing about it is that it's durable, but I don't care. I would rather play with a less durable ball. Same. This is nothing like that. This ball is actually very good. Okay? I have more time on this one than the Franklin. I think it's four sessions now. So never any, not a single weird bounce. Perfectly round. Feels like a normal pickleball, kind of more plasticky.

[00:52:33] And the speed is below both of those, but definitely faster than an X40. So this could be like the Goldilocks ball if you're those people who are like, I want something between an X40 and a Lifetime. And if they nail the color, yeah, if they nail the color, this could be it. So more to come on this one. This isn't the final version, but that's been my testing on this one. I've had these for a while. I haven't been able to really mention them.

[00:53:03] But I'm really curious what's going to happen because now we have two big names in pickleball, Franklin and Selkirk, both coming out with balls that by all the evidence we have right now are very good and lifetime competitors. And both Selkirk and especially Franklin have really good distribution. Like they sell a lot of products in a lot of countries. They don't often like sell out of stuff or have crazy back orders. They're like, they're good at this, right? This is what they do.

[00:53:31] That's the huge issue with the Lifetime right now, obviously. Yeah. Lifetime Fitness is not a product company. So they are not doing a good job with their distribution and they don't have a great distribution network because they're not a product company. Right. Like sure, you can buy them at the Lifetime Fitness places or you can buy them on Pickleball Central, but they're expensive. They're often sold out. They're hard to get a hold of. I don't even think they're on Amazon unless it's like a third party seller. However, you know, we know Franklin sells a shitload of X40s on Amazon.

[00:54:01] So if they always really infrastructure. Yeah. If you take that infrastructure and translate it to a much better ball, I could see the X44 becoming extremely widely adopted. And then when you talk about Selkirk, in pickleball specific places, Selkirk's distribution is amazing. Facilities. They have so many sponsored facilities. They have so many sponsored pro shops and the sponsored facilities right now, a lot of those people have to use S1s in the facility. Ew. Oof.

[00:54:29] So imagine now you get to go to a facility that's sponsored by Selkirk and you have good balls or you're playing in a tournament that is hosted at one of those facilities or by Selkirk and you have a great ball and it's easy to get a hold of. And hopefully the price is right. Right. So that's all very encouraging. And then the second part of that commercially that I think about is Franklin has pretty damn strong ties with pro pickleball. You know, Annalie Waters, they have so many sponsored players.

[00:54:55] They have done a lot of sponsorship with the UPA or the PPA and MLP. Could we, you know, could we see the Franklin ball become the official ball of the pro tour, a PPA pro tour in 2027? The X40 is already the official ball of APP. So I expect that in no time, the X44, as soon as they have them available, will probably become the official ball of the APP.

[00:55:21] The one wrinkle in that is that USAP doesn't allow balls that have over 40 holes and they don't allow balls that bounce over a certain height. This X44 would fail both of those things. However, money talks, you know, reference the owl situation. No, USAP wouldn't do that. Reference the owl situation.

[00:55:42] I'm sure that if there was some deal for the X44 to become the official ball of APP who has ties with USAP, then that role would get changed or waived or whatever you want to call it pretty quick. How dare you? So I'm very interested to see, you know, a lot of these contracts, I feel like work on an annual basis. So come January 1st, which ball is going to be used where? Which one has the best distribution? What's the best price? Let's also see by that point, how do they perform in cold weather?

[00:56:11] This could really shake up what is the most widely adopted ball. And for me personally, like if I went to play with a group right now and they pulled out any one of these three balls, I'd be like, great. And that's me. I'm a ball fan. So yeah, yeah, that is. But if someone pulled out an X40, I would be like, I have some lifetimes. Can we play with those? You know? Yeah. Can we play with a good ball? So that's a, I feel like that's a high compliment from me to say that. So anyway. Yeah. Those are my thoughts. I've been there for a while.

[00:56:40] A lot of ball talk, dude. Well, let's move on. I want to quickly talk about AI in the reviewer space. You didn't tell me you were going to talk about this. This is a hot topic. Yeah, I forgot to put this in the notes, but I know that you have some thoughts on this. You don't have to share anything. But there was a guy who rated all the reviewers, which it was pretty wild video.

[00:57:10] The reviewer terrorist. Yeah. He was talking about how some reviewers use AI and, you know, it's a dicey situation, in my opinion. AI, I work in a creative field. I do video production. My wife does photography. So we are no stranger to AI being widely used and adopted in our fields.

[00:57:38] And with reviewers, I've seen multiple reviewers. I'm not going to say any names because, you know, I'm not here to call anybody out who, like word for word, are reading off of a chat GPT generated script. It is so blatantly obvious. And it's, I'm not here to say you shouldn't use AI. That's not my thing at all. I think AI is a great tool to generate ideas.

[00:58:08] However, it is not a tool to generate work. Unless literally that is what a company is paying you to do to create some work. And like, yeah, you can use AI. Totally get it. But using AI to generate thoughts on a paddle and create a script for you and edit all your videos and do literally every single thing is it's ridiculous, in my opinion.

[00:58:35] If you do that, shame on you because you're not putting in the real work that, you know, other people are doing. I'm not here to say I'm perfect and, you know, above all, but there are so many people who work. You could barely put together like a seven word sentence, you know? It's just much less a series of three items. It's yeah. Lewis is not using any M dashes. Okay. Never. He doesn't even know what that means. You know what M dashes?

[00:59:04] No. Is that the, is that the, like the, the little dash that chat GPT puts in between different paragraphs? No, no, no. It's, it's, you know, see, it's, it's, it's an M dash is like the long hyphen that separates like a, you know, a phrase from the sentence. There's so many AI tells and M dash is one of them, a series of three. It's not this, it's that. That's another one, you know? Yeah. It's just painful.

[00:59:32] It makes me, uh, cringe, you know, quite a bit. And it's very cringe. There's some people who get some serious views on these and, uh, Oh yeah. I will say it is, it's not good. It's not a good look. It's very easy to go into someone's Instagram posts, copy the text, paste it into an AI, um, you know, detector. I've done this multiple times and there's been multiple people.

[01:00:03] 100% of their post was AI. Um, so if you do this, uh, shame on you, be better. Um, nothing is more important in being a content creator than being your own person. Legitimately. There's nothing more important than that. Becoming an AI generated person. Just giving slop out is helping no one. It's gonna, it's just, it's just not telling the truth also.

[01:00:33] But that's my thoughts. I wanted to touch on that. I think it's just a topic that needs to be addressed. It's becoming more prevalent. I'm seeing more and more upcoming people reviewing stuff and being like, bro, you're reading off a script. That's literally chat read for you. Um, use it to help you generate ideas. You create the script, you create the thoughts, you create your own feelings on a paddle and move on from that. Uh, AI as a tool, it's not everything, you know, it's not going to do everything for you.

[01:01:03] Um, I think my thoughts are different. I might surprise you here. Oh boy. Oh boy. Can't wait. To me, it's like, I'm very much like a free market believer. So yeah, I'm pretty much like if someone's building their own brand or their own company or their channel or whatever, you can do whatever the hell you want. And then the market will decide whether you're successful or not. And you alluded to it. There's a lot of these videos that are very AI sounding.

[01:01:30] Um, they get a lot of views, but that's because there are a lot of dummies who watch that stuff and think, Oh my God, what a great review. You know, like that was so insightful and I'm not going to watch it. I feel like, like you said, it, it makes me cringe whenever I see AI stuff. I'm like, Oh, I get it. Now there's zero insight here. There's zero originality. There was probably very little work done. This isn't a value to me. Right. So I'm out, but that's my free market choice.

[01:01:59] I'll go find someone else that I resonate with. But there are people who watch those, you know, AI generated scripts or videos or whatever it may be. And, you know, think, Oh, this is amazing. I love it. Subscribe. I'm watching the next one. Well, there you go. There's a market for that too. There's a lot of dummies out there. So, but what do I think is best? I agree with you. And what would I do if I was going to do it? I agree with you. I don't think that's the way to do it.

[01:02:27] Um, I think if you're going to put in the time and effort to be a reviewer for consumers, right? This is a consumer market, then provide some value to the consumers. And this is the analogy that I said in our little group chat when we were talking about it, but you said it, you know, too. AI is a tool. And I may have said this on the podcast, but I sort of related it to my other hobby, which is a woodworking. Like I'll build furniture.

[01:02:55] Um, and there are people in the woodworking industry who say, if you use a CNC or if you use this, then it's a shortcut. It's not real. You're not real woodworking. There are people who are so extreme. They're like, you should build everything with hand tools. You shouldn't even use power tools, right? There's, there's all these different stances across the way. And does a furniture built a hundred percent with a, you know, computer generated design on a CNC have less value than one that was built a hundred percent by hand? Well, that depends on the person buying it.

[01:03:22] Um, and in this analogy, we'll say AI is a tool, right? It's one, one singular tool. And what I told you, if I was to build a chair or a table from scratch, you know, it's like rough wood, roughs on wood. And then I'm going to build this all the way to a final product. If I said I have my one tool, my AI, let's say in this case, it's a drill. And I try to build a chair or a table from start to finish with a drill.

[01:03:51] I could probably half-ass do it, but it would be terrible. It would be so bad. And it'd be so obviously limited, right? Because the ways that you would have to, to work around things to not just do the damn work and like use a different tool would make the final product so limited and shitty. Versus if I was like, I'm going to build a table and a chair. I'm going to spare no expense. I'm going to use every tool at my disposal in my shop and all the ones that I have the best skills with. Then it could build a really nice chair or table.

[01:04:19] And yeah, but I still use a drill for part of it. And that's still valuable, right? Yeah. So the same thing with the video, you can still use AI for part of it. And it can still be a valuable outcome if you're using it as a tool, not as the one thing that do it all. Yeah. The creator, if you will. Yeah. I mean, I agree with you. I wouldn't say that I'm too far off from your free market view. It's just annoying to see how much stuff is AI generated now.

[01:04:47] And it really takes the human touch out of things. So. Yeah. Yeah. So, man, I don't know. It's not just this. It's going to be everything the next five years. I mean, it's already been crazy the last five years, how much has converted to AI. And AI is getting so insanely good now that even I sometimes will like scroll across something, a whole ass video. Yeah. And then watch it and be like, oh, cool. And then I'm like, wait a minute. Wait a minute. Is that AI? And I'll look a little closer and then find something or read something. I'm like, holy shit.

[01:05:17] Like I almost fell for it. It's that close. Yeah, it's easy. It's easy to get fooled, especially the older generation. You know, it's it's becoming way harder for people to distinguish, you know, AI generated content and videos. So that long, long joke, you know, boomers asking you, is this real or AI is not much of a joke anymore. You know, it's getting crazy. All right. Well, that's all I got to say about the AI. All right.

[01:05:46] Let's move on to everyone's favorite segment. New week, new main sponsored by Bodhi Performance. I got my Bode tank on. It's it is sleeve season. I wore sleeves out to play this morning. It was hot. But yep, if you if you're looking to buy over grips, tungsten tape, sleeves and many other pickleball related accessories, you can use code pursuit to save 15 percent at checkout

[01:06:13] when purchasing anything on Bodhi Performance dot com. Thank you, Bode for sponsoring new week. New main. Justin, it's a new week, bro. We've we've we've skipped a week. So you should have a new main. What do we got? Big guy. Look, it's it's actually new week. Same main. But it's finally time for the reveal. Oh, baby. The secret main. This has been the main for like three months, by the way. It's the secret man. I showed it before. It's black. Wow. Finally reveal it.

[01:06:43] Oh, and it's the upcoming Valer command hybrid. So nice. This is what it looks like. So here's the deal. Bias alert. Bias alert. Bias alert. I'm biased. Hey, everyone. Bias alert. OK, I look before you go. Go ahead. Hey, guys. Bias alert. Justin works for Valer. I don't work for Valer. Yeah.

[01:07:14] I work with Valer. You can solve my consulting business. Right. Yeah. Just to make sure everyone's clear. OK. And in case you're new here. Don't say anything good about the paddle or you're a shill. OK. Right. So that's what I'm going to say. OK. I was the lead developer or product engineer on this paddle. So I'm not going to talk about it yet. Now, I'm not such a goody two shoes that I'm never going to praise it. But here's what I want to do.

[01:07:42] These are shipping out to the reviewers like literally today. So I'm going to keep my mouth shut about them completely and let all the reviewers do their thing and let you guys get your information of how it plays all about it from the reviewers. Let them do their job. So I want to talk about it. And then Justin's going to tell us how we're wrong. Yeah. And then I'm going to shill. But just to be clear, when we say shill, I actually get no money from the sale of this paddle. So if you buy one or you don't buy one, I don't get paid.

[01:08:13] I'll confirm one thing for you, though. It does have hex grit. So Volair has officially licensed hex grit from 11624. It is on this upcoming paddle. So, yeah. That's huge news. It's very interesting. I'll talk more about it. And I'll ask the owners if I'm allowed to talk about how that deal came about. They'll probably say yes. Both cool dudes.

[01:08:39] And because I think it's pretty interesting and I think it makes a lot of sense for a lot of reasons. However, yeah, this has been the secret main. A lot of you kind of guessed this based on the shape and everything. But the other two shapes are coming, but not approved yet. Only the hybrid is approved. And that's Dylan's preferred shape, right? Yeah. Yeah. He is already playing with this paddle. He had a funny story. I'll tell you guys this about it.

[01:09:07] Dylan had one black sample of it and it was all black sample. And it was actually one that I had initially for testing. I played with it for a month and a half. Then we sent it to someone else. They played with it for like three weeks. And then we sent it to Dylan as an updated sample because he had a previous one too. And then he was playing with it. This is all like before approval. And then it gets approved. But we just got in the actual official ones. That's why this one still has plastic and everything.

[01:09:36] And it wasn't in time for the North Carolina PPA. Well, Dylan was like, I want to play with it. How can I do that? So we talked to the guys at UPA and you can play with blacked out paddles with the UPA, but it does need to have the UPA stamp on it and the model number and a certain other, like a couple other things. And they said, well, this is the same exact paddle. We can test it to make sure like deflection and roughness. Otherwise, if you can get that information printed onto the face of this paddle, then you can play it as a blacked out version. So nice.

[01:10:04] If you saw PPA North Carolina, Dylan was playing with a blacked out paddle. It was this paddle. And he went and found a specific print shop. Not he, but I think Valera did it for him and got all that printed on. He liked it so much. He has, I don't know how many brand new shifts. He played with a used prototype that, like I said, was used by me for probably six weeks, then someone else by three weeks, then him for three weeks. And that's the one he used in the tournament. So, so he loves it. And hex grids, hex grids.

[01:10:35] That's that permanent grip, bro. It don't matter. As I'm saying, it doesn't matter. It's been played that many months by that many people. It doesn't matter. My other black one I still have in my bag that I showed on the past couple of new week domains I've had and been playing for three months. And I mean, it's, it's not a surprise. Hex grid is still, it's still good. Like there's basically nowhere at all. Yeah. I'll talk more about it in a couple of weeks after all, the reviewers get to it. But yeah, I'll keep my mouth shut. Bags and shoes, baby. What you got?

[01:11:04] Man, I've been wearing these, uh, head revolt pro 5.0s, but I kind of think I'm going to wear these for tennis and then the CG twos for pickleball. I don't know. Back and forth. Bag save. You're just a backpack V2. Well, um, it is no surprise. New week, same main, Spartus fit buyer. I played with this and the, uh, yeah, this is one of my longest mains play with this and the MPP turbo today.

[01:11:34] And I preferred this, you know, I, I like it because it's just a little softer feeling. And, um, I clearly prefer softer and hollow paddles. It's just a really enjoyable feel. Everybody's played with it. Everybody knows this is legitimately one of the best paddles on the market right now. And, uh, it's going to be, it's going to take a lot to move me away from this one. Um, just really, uh, just really enjoy how this one plays.

[01:12:04] Um, grit. Just kidding. By the way, guys, if he was, if he was going to shill, there are so many smarter ways to shill. You wouldn't shill a $100 paddle because the commissions you get on that are way smaller than if you were to shill a more expensive paddle where he would get more commissions. That's all I'm joking. And for anybody who doesn't know, Spartus is one of the lower, uh, commission percentages unless maybe they just, uh, don't like me. I hit it for a minute the other day, uh, in a comparison and I was like, damn, this thing's good. I still think it's the best $100 paddle personally.

[01:12:34] I, yeah, I agree. I agree. It's just, uh, right up my alley. The feel is phenomenal. The power levels are perfect for me. Spins great. Other shapes are coming. Other shapes are coming. Have they said anything about the hybrid? I know the, uh, wide bodies approved. The hybrid, I think it's in, in for approval, not approved yet. Yeah. I'm excited for that one. I actually may switch to the hybrid. Um, if it's a, if it's similar to the MPP turbo hybrid or the, uh, course code a hybrid,

[01:13:04] then I might, might switch. Yeah. Um, I just like the flat type hybrids a little better. They seem to be, I don't like the rounded tops as well. I feel like I just don't have enough real estate at the top of the paddle, but that's just probably in my head. Yeah. Probably in my head. Um, yeah, dude, I don't know. This is, it's like, this is a rounded top of the Valera versus the, so you get some edge

[01:13:34] guard. Yeah. It's literally like, it's all that shows is some edge guard. Yeah. I mean, but I guess this is a flat ish round top. This is not as crazy. That's not, uh, that's not like the Honolulu. Yeah. What else we got? Um, the, uh, Vadek and Mark unmarked. Well, that's not a hybrid, but that thing is crazy round fudge pop. That is crazy round. Yeah. It could just be in my head, but a bag shoes, silk bag, uh, man surprised me.

[01:14:04] Now you're chilling. I'm just kidding. It's $300. Anytime somebody asks me how I like that bag, I'm like, it's fricking good. And then I say, but it's $300. I mean, this ADD bag is like $250 also. So the one I'm using, however, I have been using it for, uh, almost a year and a half at this point. So maybe, and it has like a 10 year warranty. So it's like, and I know the Selkirk has a really good warranty also.

[01:14:31] So when you pay $300 for something that you're going to use, let's say four or five times a week for many, many years, it's really not that bad. It's way better than a paddle that costs $300 way, way better. Exactly. Yeah. I mean, a $300 paddle is, is it's pretty crazy. That's a, that's a hard ask in today's market. That's a consumer market. You know, a bag's not a consumable. Yeah. And that thing will last for years, uh, before it starts to really, you know, have issues. But, um, yeah, that's new.

[01:15:00] I'm still rocking the cocoa CG twos. I ain't going to be switching from those brother. They're good. They're real good. Gosh. Took you a while to come around. I've seen the light. All right. Yeah. I love you. You should try this. You should try this. You know, you know what they say, guys? Wifey knows best. Let's listen to your wife. All right. Let's move on to nerd town. Big boy. Let's, let's, let's, uh, go where everybody really wants to hear.

[01:15:31] All aboard. Oh my God. Oh man. The all aboard thing. Did you know that originated all the way back in episode two? I didn't realize it was that long ago. I was, I couldn't remember if it was episode one or episode two, but, uh, it was the first. Yeah. It was the first nerd town, but that's where it was. Right. I didn't realize that by the way. I thought for some reason in my memory thought we did nerd time for a long time. And then one day I randomly screamed all aboard and you cracked up. But no, it was the very first one.

[01:15:59] Somebody linked in the discord like, oh yeah. Cause they were talking about edge tape and how much weight and swing weight edge tape adds. And they linked. I learned about it here on the podcast. And I was like, bro, you just linked a two and a half year old podcast or whatever it is. That's like episode two. I sent you the screenshot. I was like, look at how tight the shot used to be. Cause I clicked on it. The entire screen was Lewis's face. It was like this. Man. Don't go watch this. Yeah. Definitely don't watch that.

[01:16:28] You honestly take them off YouTube at this point. Yeah. I might need to just keep them on a podcast. Apple podcast and Spotify. Vampire den days, you know? Yeah, brother. All right. Here we go. Well, given the people what they ask for this week, I don't know how many months it's been. I mean, six plus months we've had comments almost every video. Do a nerd town about durable grit. Explain durable grit.

[01:16:56] And I haven't done it up to this point for two reasons. And number one is because, yes, I know how all these are applied and how they work and what materials they are. But a lot of it could be considered trade secrets from these brands. And I did not want to give any of that away. I don't want to step on the toes of any of these brands or do anything that would upset them, piss them off. They did a good job coming up with something. I'm not here to just out it. I know that everybody would love for me to do that.

[01:17:25] But that's just not how I treat my relationships in the industry. And honestly, my relationships in the industry pay off in a lot of ways. Of course, for me, but even for the viewers, that's how I get a lot of early information. It's how I understand a lot. So I'm not trying to ruffle any feathers. OK, and the second reason is for all the brands and more so factories and manufacturers who hadn't figured it out yet. I was not trying to give them all a shortcut to catch up because I think the ones who figured it out early. Good on you. You did it. I'm not trying to out your secret.

[01:17:55] And I'm also not trying to help anybody catch up to you. Now, of course, am I helping the brands I work for? Yes. But I didn't want to say it publicly because as crazy as it sounds, all these podcasts are actually watched by the manufacturers or some of them in China. Who knows if this will work? But if you're a manufacturer in China or you work for a factory in China and you're watching this, comment and let us know. That would be crazy if someone actually comments. But it's true. There have been two different video calls I've gotten on with new factories. Never been there.

[01:18:24] I get on the video call and they recognize me right away. They're like, oh, yeah, I know you. I'll watch your podcast. I'm like, what? That's crazy. That is crazy. Yeah. Just factory workers. Right. R&D people. So with those two things being said, I'm going to talk about it now. But for number one of the trade secrets thing, there are a few brands that are doing unique things different than their competitors that make them better. I'm not going to reveal those things. We're going to talk in generalities here.

[01:18:52] I'm not going to even say at any point, this is how X brand is doing it. This is how Y brand is doing it. And I'm going to talk in generalities about the different processes that I've seen successful and not successful over really, I mean, it's been almost a year now that we've been working on this since like, you know, fall last year. So I guess it has been a year. Um, so I won't be naming any brands. And number two, the other point about not wanting to help people.

[01:19:18] I think it's okay now because everyone, all these brands, or at least the factories have some version of this grit, whether it's a copy, whether it's bad, whether it's good, they have some version. And I'm not going to say anything today that anyone who's been paying attention and trying things wouldn't already know. Uh, okay. So all that out of the way, um, let's talk about it. Okay.

[01:19:43] So there's kind of two different major buckets of durable grit. There is on one side, like, uh, coatings, like top coats, uh, things that go on top of a currently built paddle. Maybe the paddle is almost finished except for the accessories, like so edge guard grip, and then they coat it with something, i.e. Thrive. I said, I wasn't going to say brands, but these are publicly released bands. Yeah. Uh, and they have said themselves, this is what they're doing. Okay.

[01:20:11] So Thrive, uh, an extra coating on top. They call it like frost or whatever. Um, this new armor grits and there are others, right? When you put a coating on top of the peel ply. And then in the other side is what people have been calling grit infused peel ply. And that one is more interesting. And there are even a couple subdivisions there that I'll get into in a second. Um, with the coating, this is a lot more simple.

[01:20:37] Uh, usually you're taking a sprayed on like polymer, something, um, that is protective or wear resistant and just spraying it over the top of the paddle. Just adding an extra layer. Now this can and can't work. Uh, I will say I have not seen up to this point, not a single one of these work amazingly to get to the permanent level, right? Now, can it make peel ply last longer? Peel ply, like basically lasts longer than a standard paddle? Yes. That's very possible.

[01:21:06] And I think that's what we've seen with the brands who are doing this. They're like, yeah, it's, uh, it lasts longer than peel ply, but it's not permanent. It still wears. It just wears slower. Right. Um, so that's one way to do it. One of the potential issues with this, and, uh, I saw this myself, I told you guys this story, but when I went to China in January and I was at the factories, one of the factories had a solution similar to this. And they were saying it's, of course they're saying it's great. It's great. It doesn't wear. It's perfect. It's amazing. I had my doubts.

[01:21:36] So while I was there, I was like, make me a sample. Um, but on one side, spray this extra coating on the other side, just leave it. Normal. So like a normal peel ply. Uh, and then they made the sample. I was able to bring that sample back to the U S with me and test it. And I still have that sample. Sure enough, it was slightly better than peel ply, but not good enough. So, uh, myself and the client at that time didn't think it was good enough. So we didn't go with it. Nothing happened with it. That was back in January.

[01:22:04] We're like, no, we need something better, but that kind of lives up to it. So, um, when we're talking about spraying things on top though, a lot of the, let's say, let's say polymer. It's like a general term here. A lot of the polymers or coatings that are durable come along with a serious drawback. Um, and for this analogy, we'll talk about like a nonstick pan. So if you've ever seen these advertisements for these pans that are nonstick or they're

[01:22:34] non scratch and you can use metal utensils or whatever on them and they don't scratch. It's a coating that they put on. Maybe it's Teflon or something similar, right? And that does make it more durable to abrasion like scratching because it allows the food and or the spatula or whatever to just slide right over it. So these are pretty much what you call like self lubricating materials.

[01:22:59] So while yes, they reduce abrasive damage because they are self lubricating. That is totally counterintuitive to spin. Now you're putting something on the face of a paddle that lowers the coefficient of friction and therefore will grab the ball less and you lose spin. So you may gain in durability, but lose in spin. So that's a problem that can happen. And then I've seen happen with some of these, um, grits that are being developed.

[01:23:27] And let's be clear here too, with a lot of these, you're not seeing a drop in spin because they're so gritty, right? And you're still getting good spin, but probably not quite as good as you would get from other more, you know, durable grid options. Yeah. Or I mean, even epoxy itself, like traditional peel ply is epoxy resin. That's not one of those self lubricating. It's actually very jagged. Like when you look at it in the microscope. So it really grabs now.

[01:23:55] It breaks and wears and smooths. It's not durable, but there's actually a lot of friction there. So it's kind of the inverse of some of these durable spray on coatings where yes, they're more durable. They don't crack and break, but they're also maybe, you know, like I said, like self lubricating. So they are, um, a little slicker. Anyway, I said self lubricating. I thought of Lewis. I'm sure he is too. Um, all right.

[01:24:22] So the second bucket is whenever we're talking about embedded abrasives and you've heard people say like grit in peel ply or, you know, the embedded grit, things like this. Um, this is the better one, I guess right now. And I said, there are two little subdivisions of how this is applied. Um, generally.

[01:24:49] And for now I'm going to call them an intermediate step in a, like a two stage situation. The two stage one is pretty obvious. You get your carbon layup, which is, or your composite layup, which is going to be the face of your paddle. It's made, it's cured. It's a hard board. It probably, it could be cut into the paddle shape, or it could still be like a meter by a meter square where they're then going to cut paddle shapes out of it later. And then, so that's stage one. Stage two is they're going to add abrasive particles.

[01:25:17] This can be accomplished by spraying them on like a sandblasting type situation. Um, it can be accomplished by, uh, literally sprinkling them, uh, with by hand or by machine. Like imagine a, like a shaker that like shakes out, you know, they do this as like powdered sugar over pastries and stuff, you know? A little beignet action, baby. Delicious. Right.

[01:25:40] Um, so, and then you apply the abrasives and an additional layer of resin, usually epoxy, normally the same type of epoxy that's used in the layup. So, and I kind of said this in backwards order, you're going to have like your cured layup. Then you'll put down your resin, whether that's wet and like rolled on or it's a wet film, something that's going to be sticky. You're going to apply the abrasives, which is the grit, um, to that, then slap a peel fly

[01:26:09] cloth on top of that and cure it again. Right? So now you've essentially added a whole second layer on top of your already cured layup. That is a resin abrasive matrix. This is how a lot of them are done. Now, the reason why they're not all perfect, um, there are many abrasives you can use. These abrasives are not hard to find. They're not hard to source because it's the same shit that you use in a lot of industrial, um, applications and also in sandpaper.

[01:26:37] So they already make them out of multiple materials. They already make them in multiple sizes, grits. Like you can imagine 180 sandpaper, 220 sandpaper, you know, these are the, just the particles and how it happens is they have the particles in a machine. It's like a bunch of shakers and there's levels of like pretty much strainers and the holes get smaller and smaller as it goes down. So as it shakes this whole thing, the particles fall through. And if they're small enough, they fall through that one and they fall through that one. They fall through that one.

[01:27:04] And at the end you have these little trays like, Oh, here's our 220, the smallest ones that fell all the way through. Here's our 180 or 150 or 120. So all this stuff is easy to source. Um, and you can get it in even multiple colors. I mean, if you're a person who's dealt with sandpaper, you know, some sandpaper is green, some blue, some purple, and then some is just, you know, black or gray or kind of clear ish particles, right? Those are undyed. So some of these abrasive materials can be dyed. Some of them are naturally colorful.

[01:27:34] Some of them can't be dyed or can only be dyed black or brown, you know, so it can only be dyed blacker or darker. Um, so that's the two-step process. The intermediate stage process is imagine you have your composite layout. Let's just say you have three layers of carbon, right? If you don't know, they start out, uh, flexible and it is a fabric that is impregnated with, uh, resin.

[01:28:03] So, I mean, if you have it, uh, just dry a fiber, it's on a roll, it's literally like a roll of fabric. And then they're going to put the resin into that. Uh, and then they're going to put the layers together, press them together, heat them, cure them, all that. So this intermediate step can work a couple of ways. Number one is before the resin is even impregnated into the fiber, the abrasives can be blended or mixed into this resin and then impregnated into the fibers.

[01:28:31] And in that case, you actually have abrasive particles throughout this entire layup. If it's a three layer layup, you have them on top, in the middle, in between the carbon, and it actually kind of deforms the carbon fibers a little bit. Um, and then, you know, they'll make that wet layup, put the peel ply cloth on it, put it in, cure it, comes out, it's done. That's one stage. So it was kind of like an intermediate step. You just added the abrasive particles intermediate in there. You know what you're already doing anyway. That's one way to do it.

[01:28:59] You could still not blend it and put it in the resin. You could have your wet, uh, fibers with no abrasives. Do your layup one, two, three layers while it's still wet. It's pretty sticky. You apply the particles and there's multiple ways to apply them. This is part of the stuff that I won't say. And then, you know, you put your peel ply cloth on, you cure it, comes out, peel the peel ply off, boom, this top layer is covered with particles.

[01:29:27] So, and they're built into the structure of the layup. It's not a second layer. Some of the problems with these two layer, uh, not the intermediate step, but the two layer one, the two step processes. Now you have a cured layer of epoxy resin and then a second layer of epoxy resin with grit in it. And if you do it right, they will adhere well, but there are a lot of variables that can make these two pieces not adhere perfectly.

[01:29:54] So then whole pieces of this layer can chip out, including the resin with the grit particles in it. So you get these little, little chips, little chips, little chips. And, and then what's underneath just epoxy resin that wears, you know, smooth, just like a regular, uh, carbon fiber face. Or if you don't apply the grit particles dense enough and they're very spread out, you know, you have a ball and it's like, imagine this is, you know, on a smaller scale, but imagine these are all grit particles, right? And the ball hits all of these.

[01:30:24] Even if the epoxy in between starts to wear down, it doesn't matter because it's still hitting all of these sharp particles that are very hard. They're not going to wear and they're really going to grab the plastic. However, if you have only like two, right? And then now the ball is hitting here. Great here. Great right between. It's going to wear down that resin. You have a smooth spot. Now, every time the ball hits, they're not going to spin well. And the spin will be, you know, less consistent across the face. If there aren't enough particles.

[01:30:52] Now that was an exaggeration, but you can imagine the more particles you can get, the more consistent grab on the ball. You can get the less, the fewer you have, the more inconsistent across the face and the more of the resin in between is allowed to wear and kind of chip those out. Should I give an example for that or? What do you mean? You know, you know something. One of the, there's a paddle. There's a couple of paddles that are the exact, you know. Go for it. Yeah. So this original coral.

[01:31:22] Like from your experience, right? Original coral in the coral pro. One. Oh yeah. Had a longer lasting grit texture because they had more in, you know, more of the particles infused in the grit peel ply, which. And from what we were told, same particles, you know, probably the same resin, just literally a different amount. Now the size of the particles may have been different. We don't know.

[01:31:47] But yeah, if you increase the size and or amount, then it really grabs and it doesn't wear through as easy. Which was a paddle that I was very like, I was like, how could this be more durable than the original one if they're using the same stuff? And then somebody explained it to me and I was like, yeah, that makes sense. That's okay. Yeah. Somebody. Yeah. Somebody explained it to you. Yeah. With a sketch.

[01:32:15] So anyway, I was about to say another example. And you can see this with a microscope if you want. The largest particles I've ever seen are the blue particles on the Honolulu. And the blue particles aren't the only particles on that face. If you look close, there's actually a lot of kind of silvery clearish black ones. And then there's blue. There's fewer of those, but they're very large. Yeah. So in that face has a lot of grab, you know, and it works really well and it lasts really long. Okay.

[01:32:45] I think that's everything. Oh, no, that's everything. There was one other thing I was going to say earlier in the AI section, but I forgot. It's not a big deal. All good, baby. Woo-wee. So that's the Nerdtown Durable Grits. I don't know. Did it make sense? Yeah. I'm kind of dancing around because I couldn't say too many details about specific things. But at the same time, maybe you guys already know this, but these are the common practices right now. And in my experience, what has worked and hasn't worked and why.

[01:33:12] And there are some, like I said, beyond that, there are some trade secrets deep in the process of how to do this and what specifically to use and maybe different machinery that really separate the best from the rest. Yep. All right. Well, is that it for Nerdtown, big dog? That was good. That's it. All right. The people got what they've been asking for. All right. I think that's everything, man. Yeah. I got nothing else. That's a long one. Yeah. It was a long one. Yeah.

[01:33:42] An hour and 30 minutes. So we've gone. We've gone. But yeah, if y'all have any other Nerdtown topics or things y'all want us to cover in future episodes, obviously drop those in the comments section below. We may be back next week. May not. Who knows? We'll see. Somebody said, you got to tell us when you're taking a break. We're taking a week off so we can deal with it properly. I can't really subscribe and hit that bell icon so you'll know. All right. Well, let's get the hell out of here after that.

[01:34:10] I hope you guys enjoyed this episode of the PP pod. We ranted. We talked a lot. And yeah, that's just typical. But until the next one, I'm your host, Lewis. Here with my co-host, Justin from Pickleball, etc. We'll see you guys on the next one. Peace. Peace. Peace.