Episode 91 - Why Are Pickleball Balls Changing? Mike Breaks Down the Ball Controversy!

[00:00:00] Thank you for joining in. I'm Mike. I'm Kizana and we're the Pickleballers Next Door. Want a pro-level pickleball court without pouring concrete? Discover rollout courts from Pickleball Management Group. They offer quick setup. The standard rollout court uses five textured polyvinyl rolls seamed together to make a 30x60 court customizable. Or choose Pickle Deck, interlocking panels for any surface. Perfect for backyards, schools, events.

[00:00:25] The complete Pickle Deck system install in under two hours and saves big versus concrete or asphalt. Pickleball Management Group is an official sponsor of USA Pickleball, Pickleball Canada. The APP Tour and the 2025 US Open Pickleball Championships. Learn more at PickleballManagement.com. Hello everybody. I'm Mike with Pickleballers Next Door. Hey, I'm going to change it up. I, you know, I, uh,

[00:00:55] I've been playing a lot of pickleball and in the last probably year, um, everybody is talking about the balls and not the balls that you're thinking of the pickleballs. Um, I don't know, you know, everywhere I go now, um, everybody is, uh, you know, what ball are you playing with? Oh, should we play with that ball? Um, you're going to tournaments and, and I think that's, it started a little bit there where the

[00:01:22] tournament started using different pickleballs. Um, but it's pretty interesting, um, when you look into this and do some research, um, you know, the first kind of balls were, you know, start off kind of a woofball and then kind of warped into a ball with more holes in it. Right. You know, they, they, uh, they, uh, they, uh, they viewed a lot, a lot of the gymnasiums and pickleball, you know, working

[00:01:48] off a plane off of the pickleball wood courts, you know, but, um, you know, it was interesting. I, I looked at the earliest ball I could find was in 1960, which was the, they used a plastic ball. That was, uh, basically just, it was just, it became a standard pickleball, but it was basically just a wiffle ball. And then from 1960, it really didn't morph into much more until 1980, which was pretty funny because

[00:02:15] that's where our Dura Dura fast 40 was like the most, you know, the newest one, which is, um, I guess it was made by Onyx is the one they started with. Um, the most, one of the longest established companies that made the pickleball was called judge jugs indoor. And they were, that's what a lot of the balls that were that for the, uh, softer, they were made for more of the in, you know, inside play,

[00:02:41] you know, the, um, playing in rec centers and stuff. Um, so the crate, that's really crazy. And then the older generation was the Onyx pier to Onyx. And, uh, that was the new, that was the one that kind of, um, USA pickleball approved to play for like tournaments and stuff. So that kind of started that whole thing. Um, I don't have dates. I was trying to find different dates cause there, there's a lot about pickleballs. Um, you wouldn't, you know, I thought, ah, you know, cause Franklin

[00:03:11] 90% of the time, everybody plays with Franklin. That's what they do now. Well, that's not true anymore. Um, I'll get to that in a few minutes. So from there we went to the X 40 Franklin sport, which I was just talking about, which is one of the most, you know, uh, familiar outdoor balls and rec, rec balls in, uh, um, for like tournaments and courts. So the, you know,

[00:03:35] and we've all played with that. And, uh, and then there was call, there was a core outdoor core ball and it was, uh, it was good, but it didn't, it really didn't stay on the market very long. Um, then there is called the Chuck and I never heard of this. I, it was designed, um, it had a more dirt, it's supposed to be more bounce and more durability, but I never, and it was made by gamma sports. So if anybody knows any bit about that, I I've never, Hey,

[00:04:04] do you have a Chuck? I never heard that, you know, I've only been in it about five years. So some of this was before my time, but maybe I'd like to hear from you guys. If you knew what a Chuck, if you had a Chuck ball. Um, and then we go to the pro S ones, which was Sucker. Um, that was the, had 38 holes designed, um, you know, emphasized on durability. So they were, this is when they were starting to, because the beginning, you know, basically the beginning of the balls

[00:04:33] and we started getting the new paddles. If you think about this and how hard we started hitting the ball. If you went outside cold, it only took a couple of wax and you were breaking a ball. So during the winter, they really got bad or if it got over hot, they would just kind of really dull out or they'd lose their shape. So that, that was, uh, that was kind of interesting. Then in, um, and that was 2023 that's error for that. And then we had the Vulcan, which

[00:04:59] was called the V, the V pro flight. You know, what's kind of funny with all this is almost sounds like a golf ball, right? But the Vulcans I played with Vulcans that came out in 2024 and, um, you know, major pros, uh, played with that ball, uh, you know, it was faster. It was a durable. Um, and then here we go. This is when the LT pro 48 lifetime. Now this is the ball

[00:05:26] that I go everywhere. I go. When I play with upper players, they want to play with lifetime. And I, and I agree. It's a fun ball, very durable, very fast, and it holds its shape and, uh, it has 48 holes. So it's, uh, you know, it's, they, they basically, it's for professionals and major tours. Um, so they, that's, that's the ball, but this is the one that everybody's talking about. So the S2 pro

[00:05:53] Sucker pro, which comes out October 20th, well, which is now we, we just, we just came out and it is host to be able to as 38 holes. And it's posted within stand one year without cracking. Um, there's been some funny videos. I've been watching some other guy, podcasters and some, uh, social media guys and they're smacking it. They're rolling it. They're stepping on it. They said, if you run it over with a car, it will crack. But I mean, really they put through it,

[00:06:22] they put it through a test. So, you know, in this, in the, you know, the five balls that I, you know, that you're going to, you know, you probably know the most is the Franklin X 40, the Durr fast 40, you have the Sucker pro one S one pickleball, and then you have the lifetime with the pro 48, you know, the pro 48. And now we have the Sucker S two pro. I have not got to play with this yet. And I was supposed to get a couple of cents to me, but I, I didn't get any, I haven't

[00:06:51] got them yet. So hopefully soon I can give you a little more information, but it's, it's just crazy. You go onto the court and you, when I started, you just got something to hit the ball. You got a ball and you played pickleball. And you hear me talk about this all the time. Um, you know, back in the day, it was a wood paddle and a wiffle ball and that was pickleball. Now it's how many, you know, look at all the different paddles we have, all the different styles, all the different, you know,

[00:07:19] lingo and shots we have designed. I mean, it's gotten crazy, but I thought this was a funny one because you know, how many people are going on courts and everybody's looking at your balls, you know, what ball do you have? You know? I mean, and it's just to me like, wow. And people will, people will stop, run to their bag and be like, Hey, Hey, we got to get a different ball. And, um, and I'm okay with it. I mean, I don't have anything to say about it, but if any, you pull

[00:07:46] a Franklin out or you pull a Chuck ball, I'd like to see the Chuck ball, but you pull out any of the other balls, I'm going to, I'll play pickleball. You know what I mean? But I do understand. I mean, when I, when we play with the lifetime and really, and that's the guys anywhere four Oh and up pretty much are going to play with lifetime. I think this new ball, I can't wait to try it that this is the, the, the Sucker S2 pro. I'm really curious to see what, uh, what that's like. It's

[00:08:13] supposed to have all the bells and whistles fast. It's supposed to have the stay in shape. It's, and again, it's not what they guarantee one year, but are they really guaranteed one year? Or, I mean, let's think about this. First of all, I will put 20 by 10 to 20 balls in my bag. Sometimes by the end of the week, I have one, so I don't know where they go, but they disappear. The other factor is, is as they wear and you wear off the name, even when you put your own name on it, you put your

[00:08:41] initials or something on it, they just disappear, you know? So I don't know. I mean, I, maybe there will be some people that will, you know, put a date on them and put a, keep the receipt and see if in a year, if they crack, they're taking them back. So I don't, I think, um, we play, if you're a pickleball player, you're not really going to worry about that. So, um, I don't know. I just thought this was kind

[00:09:05] of funny. Um, I'd like to hear from you guys, you know? So, um, but it's been a, it's been a thing. And I mean, I know in the tournaments too, you know, people, uh, they like to use a ball when you go to tournaments, you're going to, you know, it was actually the front when I started, it was the Frank, it was the Franklin. And then that changed up later years. But, uh, yeah, I'm really curious to see where we're going with this ball thing. I mean, but there's other phone, there's, there's

[00:09:32] other balls too. They tried, they came up with a foam ball, the Liberty, the librarian. Yeah. I don't know if you guys have heard of that, you know, because of all the noise, somebody jumped on the it didn't play. They said they, you know, they swear, Oh, this is playing just like a regular pickleball. No. And, and, you know, it's like this, the paddles that are silent, you know, that have the felt on them and you don't hear them. I don't know. For me, I kind of play off a sound a little bit. I can kind of hear that ball cracking and moving. And

[00:10:01] if you use the foam ball and a foam paddle, I don't know what I would do. That'd be a little weird, but they are still true. I mean, I'm waiting to have a bouncy ball or something. I don't know. It's kind of funny, but, uh, I just, I just had to talk about it because it's just everywhere I go and I play, you know, five to six days a week and it doesn't matter where I go and it's every facility. And every time we play, it's the first thing, you know,

[00:10:26] hello, I'm Mike. And what ball are you playing with? You know, it's just crazy, but I'd like to know if you guys, you know, DM me, send me some stuff, you know, I'd like to know what you think. Um, but, uh, uh, I, you know, I'd like to have a vote, you know, let's do a pickleball next door vote. I'd like to know, you know, is it the Franklin X 40, the Durr fast 40, the Seltzer pro S one, the Seltzer S two pro the lifetime pro 48, the Onyx fuse.

[00:10:54] And there's some other, there's some few other ones that people play with, you know, there's odd balls in there. The funny part is the, you know, some of the odd balls, they don't play very well. And I've even ordered like, you know, thought I, there was a deal for a hundred balls for really cheap. Don't ever do that. They are bad. I mean, they are, they are usually, they're already warped. They're really thin. They crack. They don't even, they're not worth your money, even if you get them a dollar a piece, but also where our ball, what's the

[00:11:22] price going to too. You know what I mean? When I started in the, in pickleball five years ago, you could buy a ball for a dollar 50 to two bucks and the better balls were up to like two 75. I, you know, now there's balls three bucks and above. So, I mean, I'm really curious. I should have looked that up. I'll, I'll take, I'll do some research to see what the new, uh, this new Seltzer one's going to be. I bet it's a, I bet it's five. But I

[00:11:48] mean, if you're given a one year warranty and think about how many balls you break a month, I probably go through at least five to 10. I mean, if not more, you know, I mean, and a lot of those are just accidental. I leave them. Somebody needs a ball. I throw them out one. So, I mean, some of that, some of that's part of that, but I mean, at the end of the day, you know, I know they're going to charge for that. You know what I mean? So yeah, they're going to send you a free ball, but I bet you these balls are going to be, you know, from

[00:12:15] four 50 and up, you know what I mean? Or you have to buy a pack for 25 or 30 bucks, but they're going to tell you that, Hey, look at how many balls you're using. Now you only got to keep three or four in your bag and you're ready to go. But I also like to know that from you guys too. Is, is that true? Are you the same way I am? I think most people are. I always talk to everybody too. They're like, are all the balls going? Like there's a ball monster coming in my bag and eating them, you know? And I think it's just the, you're

[00:12:42] in the social situation and somebody needs a ball or you you're playing in an open play and there goes your ball. You know, it doesn't matter. It has your name on it. I mean, nobody just like, Hey, this is Mike's ball. Do you want it back? I mean, it just ends up in someone's bag. It has, I've had them recycle and been, I grabbed a ball that somebody had and there's my name on it. So, you know, but at the end of the day, it's a, it's a pickleball and I'm not going to, I'm not going to worry about it, you

[00:13:08] know? But I do think that they're, you know, is this changing the game? Yes. Yes. Faster. You know, um, the balls are harder. Like I feel like they're harder. Um, and that's, that was one of the things, the harder ball is a little faster. And I think that they can make it thicker so that doesn't break as much. And I think the 48 holes is a big deal with it. Um, but I think that the, the, like the indoor courts, they have bigger holes and

[00:13:36] not as many. And that's why they're, and they're a little softer so that they don't kind of skip and bounce on the hardwood floors and stuff. So if you played indoors, you know what I'm talking about? I mean, if you try to play with an outside ball in a rec at rec center, it's horrible. Like that ball will just, you, you serve it to somebody. And if you have a hard serve, it just skips, they can't even get it. But, uh, this is, uh, I don't know. I just found this entertaining, you know? So, um, and you know, where's this

[00:14:05] going now again? Um, and you know, the big companies are kind of stepping in. I mean, I think, uh, Sucker is, you know, a huge paddle company, you know, they, they do a lot. They're, they're sponsor. They have, you know, they, they have a lot of equipment. Um, I started with their paddles. I mean, that's where I, that's what the, for me, that was the first paddle I got that had all the bells and whistles. And now I play, uh, I play with, I still play with the Sucker. I play with the boomstick. So, but I think also all these paddles are

[00:14:35] creating them to have to make new balls too, right? Because the freaking power that we have, the foam paddles now and stuff, and how hard people are hitting the ball. I'm telling you, I've been hit and it hurts. I mean, it's like in my face, I've got hit. I mean, I, I I'll have a bruise for two to three days. It's crazy. So yeah, here's again, you know, pickleball world just keeps changing and trying things. And I guess it's adapting at the same time,

[00:15:03] but you know, is it just, is it taking away some of the fun? I don't know. I mean, or is it making it more fun? I, you know, I do like the faster pace. I like the, but it just gets hard. I mean, it's just that lifetime ball is just bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang. And it takes the beat, it takes the beating. It really does. So I can't wait to get some of these new balls. I should have them in the next couple of days. Um, they send me stuff and I get to try it out, which that's the fun part about a podcast. I get to try equipment

[00:15:31] out and, and new stuff. So, well, let me know. Um, I just wanted to go through this really quack, crack, quack. I wanted to go through this and see what you guys thought. I'd like to know. And what would you know, what would they be the most important thing for you? Would it be the, you know, the bounce? Would it be the speed? Is it their durability? Is it feel in control or is it price? You know, mine, I'm going to want probably, you know, I do

[00:15:59] like the speed and the durability. And I think that's going to be a lot of us, but I think there's some people too, that you play rec. I mean, you don't have to play like you're winning. You're playing in a tournament every time you play. That's why I said when most of the time, if I go to open play, there's usually Franklin's or whatever, and you just play. Now I found it hard to play with a start with a Franklin and then go into a lifetime. I don't know if any of you've had that experience, you know, cause this ball's moving now. And if

[00:16:28] all of a sudden you've been hitting the Franklin was full, you know, falling through the ball and everything, and it stays in the court. Now, when you go to do that lifetime ball, wow, it flies. And if you ever, when you get a brand new lifetime, oh my gosh, you have to calm, you have to tame everything down because it becomes crazy. So I'd like to know that too. If you guys, what would, what's important to you? I mean, is it going to be price? Is it the feel and control speed, durability, you know? So I would like to know that. And then what brand

[00:16:57] do you play with? You know, let me know. It doesn't matter to you. I mean, I don't think, but I think it does matter because I, I don't think it matters so much for the beginners and maybe some intermediate because I play with everybody. Cause I'm here at the Hilton tonight doing my, my pickleball coaching and they don't care. I bring a buckets of balls so we can just hit balls. They aren't even caring what the ball is. They're caring about, you know, learning how to do a new

[00:17:25] shot, how to get topspin, how to do a serve, how to dink at the, you know, thing too. So crazy, crazy, crazy, but I don't know. I just wanted to do a shout out about pickleballs and, um, see if you guys had anything to say about it. Um, I've been doing all kinds of stuff about the clubs and you know, where it's going and where the future is. And I don't know why this one just, I, I kind of wanted to switch up here because this one just made me, makes me laugh.

[00:17:54] I was just, Oh, that's, and I'm just going to chicken and pickle and they gave me a new ball and I'll, I'm going to test it out and I'll talk to you guys about it, but it's a whole, it's its own brand. I'm kind of, I didn't bring it with me. Um, they just gave me one to try. So I'm really curious. And again, it's supposed to be the same way. It won't crack and it's posted down. They don't, they don't guarantee it to, you know, one year. I think that's something that Selker's doing, but I don't know. Let's see what happens. But are we getting too crazy

[00:18:22] with pickleballs? Are we too crazy with paddles? You know, I mean, Oh gosh. And the stuff people are doing out on the court is nuts. I mean, but it makes the game. If you're an upper end player, it's fun, but is it going to be fun for the kids? Is it going to be fun for the family? I hope it stays that way. I hope we, you know, because I do get people saying like, I even have people that won't play with people now. I mean, they're like, now I'll wait for the next person.

[00:18:50] You know, I mean, just because that person hits the ball so hard, every shot is hit as hard as I can. And it's like, Oh, even I struggle with it. Like, you know, I'm sitting at the, I'm sitting at the front, you know, they're on the back and they're just driving that ball and driving that ball. And I mean, it's like, it's easy to make a mistake and they do get points, you know, they do, they beat you up, but I don't think it's as fun, you know, and I hit balls hard too. No, I think we all do.

[00:19:15] We take our opportunity, but I don't think every ball should be like as hard as you can hit it. So maybe that's why they had to make these too, you know, it's because I'll, you know, a lot of tennis players are coming in and they hit the ball hard and they do a lot of top spin and, you know, they're good. I mean, big tennis players come in and they, they level up very fast, especially if they've been playing tennis for a long time. Um, you know, and, uh, I don't know,

[00:19:42] single play. That's a whole other place too. You know, that is to me, see when you play singles, first of all, I'm old and I just don't love it as much. I mean, I can't move around the court as fast as if I was, you know, younger, if I was 30, probably would love it 30 or 40. I would love it, but I'm not. So I think that, you know, um, but that's where you play a lot of the back. I mean, it's hard to get to the front. You know, if you ever played singles, you don't just run to the front like you do when you're playing doubles. I mean, I, I maybe the young guys, but you run to the front

[00:20:12] and they're going to hit it right in the side of you. So let me know guys. I just, this is a short podcast today. Cause I just, this was something that I had another whole podcast and I'm going to do it next week, but I just, the ball thing just, I had to talk about it because I think it's funny and where, where, where is it going to go? I mean, well, and we do have, we do have glow in the dark. I didn't even mention that we have glow in the dark balls and that's pretty cool. They have ones you can put lights in. Um, I don't know if you've ever tried glow in the dark. It's, it's just a fun game.

[00:20:41] You know what I mean? It's not, it's, it's not, I mean, you're not, if you can't see really good on the court, it's really hard to do the placement and stuff. So it's just about more having fun, but there is glow in the dark balls and they do have ones that have lights in them and they're, it's pretty neat. Um, so let me know your experience with balls, everybody. Again, I love you and thank you for listening and staying with me. All my sponsors. I thank you so much.

[00:21:07] My lovely wife, my five children, my four grandkids and all my friends that, um, I just love you to death, all the places I play and all the great people I meet every week and, uh, keep tuned. I'm going to have some neat stuff. I just throwing this one in here. I changed up a little bit. Hope you liked it, but, um, give me some, give me some, you know, do some research and you're going to find out like it's a little crazy. So love you guys. Have a great night. Happy pickleballing. And I'll talk

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