No Sleep. No Rules. Just Winning. w/ Gabe Tardio + Hayden Patriquin

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[00:00:30] All right. So speaking of clap that shit. First question we have here. Hayden, can you verify? Did you? Why are you asking that? It's on the sheet. It's on the sheet. Next question. Nico, you want to kick us off? Yeah. But did yours just start? Yeah. Don't you need to clap before while your thing is rolling? Probably. We gotta leave this in.

[00:01:09] There we go. I like that. All right. We got a special edition here of the Pickle Pod. I am your main host, Nico the Lefty. We got Zane Navratil as always. And we also have Hayden Patrick Winn and Gabe Tardio. And as you can tell, we are not in our normal place. I am not in my parents' house, which by the way, if you guys didn't know, that's where my studio is. Zane's is... Dude, you can't be saying that Jimmy Miller is going to have a field day with that.

[00:01:38] I don't give a fuck about Jimmy Miller. Episode title is I don't give a fuck about Jimmy Miller. No, but we're over here in like the wildest pickleball facility. This is a pickleball facility that has like a multi-million dollar recording studio where like Britney Spears has recorded. We're in Atlanta for the Atlanta Slam. There's like a full gym, a sauna, a recording studio. I think there's like a trampoline park, right? You know, attached to this building. It's bizarre. Anyway, you guys want to check it out. What's the name of this place?

[00:02:07] Atlanta National Pickleball Club. Atlanta National Pickleball Club. You should check it out if you guys are here. This is fantastic. All right. Anyway, I was going to hit the trampoline park or what? Yeah, for sure. I saw it and I was trying to get out there. They wouldn't let me. Who wouldn't let you? I'd have an adult present. We're off to a good start. Awesome. So, Zane, why don't you kick us off with some questions? So you're not prepared basically is what you're saying. I got all the stuff here.

[00:02:37] I'll start off with, since we're going into MLP season pretty soon here, I'll start off with some shock culture stuff. Because I think there are probably two to three teams that have really actually kind of built a real culture. I would say that the Fives have built a culture. The Shock have built a culture. Give me a break. The Fives built a culture winning and then they shipped you off to Chicago? Chicago. Okay. To go build the culture. To lead the culture, yeah.

[00:03:05] But, obviously, you guys all seem to enjoy playing on the Shock, of course, but it just feels like there is a good amount of pressure from ownership, from the outside looking in. I'd be curious your guys' experience on playing on that team, how you deal with everything, and, yeah, just general thoughts on Shock culture. So, you want to go down? All right. Yeah, I mean, the owners, as you know, are the Shayfetts, right?

[00:03:33] Very competitive father-son duo. They definitely want us to win. But, I don't know. I think, like, the last tournament we played, Dallas, we kind of, like, I think we all kind of were, like, really burnt out and we're, like, you know, fuck this. Like, we just want to, like, chill. And we kind of had the mindset of, like, you know, like, we're going to take this lightly. We don't really care, win or lose. And I think that kind of helped us. So, I think we developed in that way. But I don't even remember your question.

[00:03:59] But, yeah, do you feel like there's, like, I don't know, some undue pressure or, like, is it too much, like, competitiveness or, yeah? I wouldn't say it was too much, I think. Like, you know, as you know, Anna and Kate, they're, like, you know, pretty intense people and so are the Shayfetts group, which I think makes us play better. Like, bro, could you imagine a team with me and Hayden with, like, no Anna Bright? We wouldn't even practice. We wouldn't practice. We wouldn't practice.

[00:04:28] Like, we would be fucking around. Anna's got us there at 8 a.m. every fucking morning. Yeah, so I think it's a good combination. Obviously, you know, the Shayfetts, they're, like, they've done really good in life. So I think they expect us to do really well, which, you know, adds a little pressure. But I think it's honestly, I think we need it. And I think it's good to have that pressure for us to, like, you know, keep us in line and then, yeah. Do you think that comes more from Anna or more from them or Combo? I think it comes from everyone. Everyone, yeah.

[00:04:58] And Eric Lang now is, like, the new babysitter. It used to be Anna and Kate. Now it's Eric Lang. I was wondering what his actual role was. It's nice he's got a title now. No, no, no. Yeah, Eric's, like, the coach of the team. Eric actually helped Gabe and I a lot with, like, men's doubles. Like, we were, like, obviously we should have been a lot better. And then Eric kind of helped us with a few different things. And, like, we really, like, skyrocketed with, like, our stats and stuff. Yeah, I think MLP Columbus, I think we lost to Jay and Noah.

[00:05:26] After that, I think we locked in. Was that last year you guys lost? Yeah. Okay. Because you guys were good two years ago. Last year you guys were incredible. You guys only lost once? Or until finals, maybe? Lost. I don't remember. Yeah. Almost no losses. Once or twice, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it was incredible. What did Eric do? How did he help you? Yeah, I mean, I just think he was a good coach. Like, he was telling us, like, a little bit of strategy. He was just more, like, a support thing.

[00:05:56] And, like, I think the main thing for us is we need someone to keep us relaxed and keep us locked in. Because that's, like, I think me personally, I get bored a lot. And I start fucking around and stuff like that. Yeah, that's nice. I see this. I'm so fucking good at pickleball. I can just get caught out there. I think Hayden is the same. I'll fight for my life. Yeah, yeah. It's tough to bring the intensity sometimes. But I think another thing that helped us, too, like, Gabe and I can hit, like, I don't want to sound, like, fucking cocky. But we can hit, like, any shot.

[00:06:22] And, like, Eric told us, like, talk a little bit before, like, you're going to serve. And, like, where are you going to, where are you thinking to hit the drop? Where are you going to, like, what's your plan here? And, like, I think, like, we talked a little bit about, like, where we're going to hit our drop before, like, everything. And, like, it kind of, like, helped us get to the net, which we really struggled. And I think that helped a lot. When you guys play a team like the New York Hustlers, do you guys ever just nerf yourself on purpose to make it more interesting? Like, I'm going to only hit drives. I'm only going to hit drops.

[00:06:51] I'm going to play my opposite hand. Like, do you guys do any of that kind of stuff? Not really. Every time we play the New York Hustlers, it's just, like, 11-1, 11-2, 11-1. I think we just want to get out of there as quickly as possible. Why am I even here? Yeah. Zane's yelling at us. Other Zane. Yeah, Zane Ford. Oh, yeah. It's going crazy. I still remember MLP Dallas. I was playing in a Moneyball at the same time you guys were playing in Dallas. Dallas and the two people that we played in the finals had higher dupers than every player on the New York Hustlers. So, yeah. That's crazy.

[00:07:20] I think that's where, like, Rich and Ross come in, which I think is so important. Like, when we play against New York, like, we're not locked in. And then Rich, we got Rich into silent. Kill him! Kill him! Those guys know pickleball, but, like, not to the extent where it's, like, they probably don't know that, like, yeah, this is going to be a blowout regardless of what we do, right? Yeah. No, they don't care. They want us to win 11-0, 11-0, 11-0 every single match.

[00:07:48] Which, again, it could be, like, put us pressure. You know, it could be bad, but I think we take it on a good way. You know, I think it makes us lock in, which we need it. Yeah, I'm curious to know what you guys think. Like, I think some players are at their best when they're, like, kind of loose, having fun, joking around, like, taking the pressure off themselves that way. And then some other players are, like, you know, best when they're, like, yeah, kill him, like, completely fired up.

[00:08:17] Like, you see Anna Bright crazy eyes. Once you get the eyes, you know it's coming. So there are definitely different styles, right? Do you guys feel like you are more one way or the other? Like, better loose or better intense? I think for me, it needs to be a kind of, like, combination where I'm loose. I'm not overthinking. But also, I need to have pressure for me to, like, you know, lock in and stuff.

[00:08:42] Because, like, Hayden said, like, you know, I don't want to sound cocky, but, like, we have so many different shots that we could hit. So if we don't have, you know, if we're, like, relaxed or whatever, we'll start doing, like, stupid shit.

[00:09:23] Yeah. Texas was super interesting because we went to three games every single match except for the semis and the finals. Except for the top. Yeah, yeah, yeah. As you know, yeah. Yeah. Wow. That makes sense. So one more question on the shock. Do you think, like, there's something to be said about being, like, wanting it too much? Because I think that in the finals, right, like, our team, the Fives, our problem was probably that we wanted it too bad, right?

[00:09:52] And then that's you trying to, like, overdo it a little bit. And I do see, you know, maybe a little bit of similarity there because you guys had the same thing happen to you. Up one game both years in a row and I think lost two to Columbus last year and then it was Dallas the year before. Yeah. We were up one game in the final both years, other team comes back and loses too. Do you think there's something to, like, wanting it too bad? A hundred percent. And I think that it kind of comes back to what I was talking about at Dallas.

[00:10:22] Like, we just need to, like, obviously we care, but we needed to, like, not care, you know? I think it loosens us up and we all play, like, our top level. Like, we played, like, out of our mind in Dallas, I would say. And that was the tournament where we were like, we don't give a fuck. Like, we should just, you know? I mean, yeah, the season was pretty much over. So, I don't know. That tournament made no sense. Like, why would we have a... I thought you guys got the one seed because of that tournament. No? Maybe? Yeah, but it might have been because all they had to do is beat the Hustlers or something like that.

[00:10:52] Yeah. Oh, yeah, that's right. You guys have, there were some good matches in Dallas. There were. Good, meaningless matches. Good, meaningless matches. Yeah, exactly. So, Zane, the question that we actually literally put on here was, are you guys chokers? I mean, you could say that. I think, you know, I mean, we definitely don't play our best. Like, look at Columbus. Like, Columbus, it's a great team. You know, Andre, Paris, like, they're awesome players and they're even better competitors.

[00:11:19] But, you know, we've been kind of, like, blowing them out on the regular season. Like, if you look at our, I don't know, scores against them, it's like 3-0, 3-1, 3-0. Like, it's insane. Yeah. And then we lost 3-1, you know, we got blown out. Oh, yeah, yeah. Oh, no, we went to Green Break, actually. We just didn't win a match. We didn't win one. Yeah. We lost 2-0. So, I think it's kind of like what you said. Maybe we're chokers. Maybe we're burned out.

[00:11:44] It's, you know, it's a long season where, like, we're always, like, you know, so locked in and then, you know, PPA right before. So, I think it's a little bit of both. I think, like, Sane said, is, like, we wanted too much. Yeah. We've been, like, we literally won every single point for, like, the whole season. And when it gets to playoffs, we're burnt out. You're, like, mentally burnt out. Like, holy shit. This is the moment we've been waiting for and then it's, like, tough. It was almost, like, shaking.

[00:12:09] And then I thought the court, not saying the court was bad, but I feel like it was not ideal for your guys' play style. Yeah, New York. The bounce wasn't very, like, high. I felt like it was, like, it was, like, tailor-made for two 6'5 guys to be true. 100%. Yeah. Yeah. Well, we didn't, I mean, everyone was in the same boat. Right. No one got to practice on those courts because it rained and it was wet. Yeah. But, I mean, like, also, everyone being in the same boat doesn't affect everybody equally. Right? That's true.

[00:12:36] Like, slow conditions or the ball not bouncing as high. You guys are two of the best players at off-bounce speed-ups. Right? And if it doesn't bounce, you can't off-bounce speed-up. Right. So. Yeah. I don't know. We could put it as chokers. Yeah. I don't know. That's for sure going to be the social media show. The thumbnail is just going to be chokers. The two of you guys. We are chokers. With a ball gag. Right. With a ball gag. I've already got the Anna Bright thumbnail with the old Reggie Miller choking thing.

[00:13:06] We don't know what the fuck you're talking about. I don't even know what the fuck you're talking about. I don't know what I'm talking about. You don't, you don't, that's like at least an iconic meme. That was, but that's what the one was. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know what we were talking about. Yeah. That happened before they were born, though. Yeah, it happened before I was born, too. No, it didn't. When did that happen? Didn't Halliburton do it? Yeah, he did the same thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. In the 90s, I don't know. Okay, Gabe knows ball. I know ball. He does, yeah, there you go. Respect, Gabe. I didn't even know that. I don't know, I don't know shit. You don't watch any pro sports? You guys watch pro sports? Not a lot.

[00:13:35] Maybe tennis, like big tournaments, finals. What are you watching your free time? That's an dangerous question. No, I'm kidding. I watch a lot of gambling videos and like, I actually watch a lot of pickleball. Actually. Do you like watch like poker? What kind of gambling videos are you watching? I watch slots. I watch. Wait, you're actually reading those slots? I watch slots.

[00:14:04] I love you, bro. I watch blackjack, buck rot, like. Real gambling. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, then I understand. I can understand watching blackjack or poker or buck rot. But slots, dude? That shit makes me sweat, bro. Is that like you would not know? We won a big slot. Dude. You don't know the feeling. The feeling of a slot hitting is unbelievable. We hit the grandjack sponsor on this shit. Dude, I've been. Well, I'm not 21 yet. But dude, if I like we were actually talking about it. The time we get a gambling sponsor, we're quitting pickleball.

[00:14:34] That's that's. We're done. We're done. That's it. We can have like a pickleball tournament on a cruise ship and where you can gamble when you're 18. Are you sure? I was on there, dude. I was fucking telling him. I was telling him, let's go on a cruise ship. A cruise ship. That's a team over there. It's perfect. Zane has a company that's like luxury pickleball. Luxury pickleball. We'll have one on a cruise ship. Yeah, Dre was just on. Get us in. And Tanner, right? Yeah. He was telling me about it. There you go.

[00:15:01] So if there was a no limit hold'em poker tournament on tour, Gabe, are you winning? No, I'm not winning. I'm going to win firsthand. Who's the best? We've played with a couple. We've played with Andre, Ben. Oh, Adam Stone. Well, Adam Stone. Adam Stone is really good. He actually rinsed us. He was a pro poker player before he was a football player. Wow. I don't know. I would lose first one, I guarantee you.

[00:15:31] I'd lose it. So you're only there for like big hands of blackjack. You're watching slots on him. I want the sweat, dude. I'm there for like, you know, I'm there for. Quick adrenaline. Quick adrenaline. All right. So how do you get the sweat? Like what are you sweating over on a roulette table or something like that? Like what are you putting down? Well, this is the only game I don't play is roulette. Really? But anything else. Sweat at all. It's just a big sweat. Why not roulette? I like Bachrad better. I think roulette is just dumb.

[00:15:59] Like you spin the wheel and, you know, red or black, everybody does that. And then there's like green and then there's like numbers. Yeah. I don't know. There's too much math to it. But I like blackjack. What do you mean? Yeah. And I bust every single time. So you're not good at gambling. You could say. No, actually, I'm not bad. I wouldn't say I'm bad. I'm actually pretty even. I haven't lost money. I'm actually might be up like a few hundred bucks. I'm a tight gambler. So.

[00:16:28] So what makes you, what makes you sweat? Like, all right, you're going into somewhere. Tell them the sweat and the Bachrad. Like, are you familiar with like high limit Bachrad? Not particularly. Yeah. It's going to be hard to explain. This guy's experience. This was supposed to be a pickable podcast. This is going to be a gambling podcast. This is even better. This is even better. Basically, Bachrad, you get closest to nine or nine. Nine wins. So the sweat is like the dealer will give you the cards, right? Say I'm player. It's banker player. I'll bet on player.

[00:16:57] The bank, the banker keeps the cards. He gives me player cards. And you can kind of like fold the cards and look like, what do you have? And then you're like, let me see what you have. He flips an eight in a 10, right? That's eight. So eight and nine are natural. They win. So if I get like a nine and a 10, I beat that. And that's the sweat, like kind of like folding the cards. I thought you were saying sweat, like, oh, like I'm getting my heartbeat going. That gets it going. Oh, okay. As she gets it going, trust. Trust. Trust. Trust. That'll get you going now.

[00:17:24] But like what type of, like what are you throwing down on a hand in something like that? We usually do $100 a hand. That'd get me sweating. Yeah, yeah. How many hands do you play? Till I bust or till I? Till you, I don't know. It depends on the night. Yeah, it depends on the night. But anyways, Baccarat is my favorite game. And then I love slots. I think the bonuses are a lot of fun. You can't get over watching slots on YouTube. I just can't get over that.

[00:17:55] The sweat about getting, there's like symbols you look for, right? And if you get it, you get it in this bonus where you get so much money. And like, you know. Gabe and I hit the grand jackpot of, and we made $8,500. Like no one hits that. And Gabe and I hit that. That's like percentage wise, that's like .00 something. So I think that's what got us going. I would imagine. Yeah. That was crazy. Okay.

[00:18:24] Well, Nico, you got any pickleball questions too? Yes. Pickleball questions. All right. So speaking, we're talking about background here. So Gabe's background is professional gambling. Hey, hey. Hey, hey. Hey, hey. Hey, hey. Hey, hey. Hey, hey. Hey, hey. Hey, hey. Hey, hey. Annalie was at soccer. I don't know if Annalie was good at soccer. I feel like nobody knows how good Annalie was. That's what I'm saying.

[00:18:53] That's what I'm saying. I see people say stuff online. I'm sure she was good at soccer. But people are like, you know, assuming she was like some amazing soccer player. She was like 11 when that happened. Like, how do you know? Yeah. So I mean, like I quit baseball. What was your baseball duper? We'll put it that way. I mean, I couldn't even tell you. I don't know. But I made a couple teams. So like there's a team all over the U.S. There's like Mid-Atlantic, West Coast, whatever. So there's a West Coast team.

[00:19:20] There's six players from California make six players from Arizona. I think it was 12U, 11U or something like that. I made that team. So I was one of the six from California. Oh, dang. So at the time I was really good. But developing into like getting better into baseball, like high school, college. Like I don't know if I would have made a high school team. But like I wasn't as big. So I was really good on defense. But hitting wise, I would get on base. But I was never like a, you know, big hitter. Strikes on super small. Yeah. That's where I kind of. Yeah. Very high on base percentage.

[00:19:50] That's where I kind of lacked the size. And baseball is very political. You know how it goes. It's like daddy ball and shit. But I was good. I was a good baseball player. I don't think I saw myself playing college. I don't think you get enough credit. Like I think we should like promote you. We'll tell Dave Fleming like, hey, can you kind of like, you know, fluff them up here with the baseball? Because I was like, oh, Anna Lee was going to play pro soccer on the U.S. national team. And then Hayden played baseball. That's what I hear. And I'm just like, all right. Let's, you know. Yeah.

[00:20:19] Pump me up. Yeah, pump him up. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Nobody knows. So did any of the baseball skills translate to pickleball? Is that like just like a myth? Like do sports actually translate to pickleball? I would assume the hand-eye coordination for sure. And then the lateral movements, like I played shortstop in second base. So kind of moving side to side for that ball or whatever. I would 100% say it kind of translates. Okay. Yeah. It's got to be like reaction time too. Reaction time. Yeah. You're reacting every single time you're up at the plate. Right. Or fielding a ball and stuff like that. Yeah.

[00:20:48] And tracking a ball that's going, you know, 80 miles per hour at you. Right, right, right. Like we don't have anything similar in pickleball. Right. Although I do think it's interesting. Like we have less reaction time than MLB fastballs on some of these. You watch a point of yourself and you'll hit like three shots in a point, which means – or sorry, in a second. That's insane. Which means like you're hitting them every third of a second, which is actually faster than a ball gets to home plate in certain cases. It's unreal. It keeps getting faster too.

[00:21:15] Like some of these like hands battles, like in Utah, we had some hands battles like in the final that were like unbelievable. It's like I don't even know how I'm getting the ball back. Like it's crazy the reaction times that some of us have. It's wild. Do you think that tops out at some point? Yeah, I would assume so, right? I don't know. Like – but it's always gotten faster. Like pickleball has always gotten faster for as long as I've been playing, which has been 13 years. Well, I just think people adapt. Like a couple years ago, we don't have a lifetime.

[00:21:44] We didn't have us poppy paddles. So I think it's just people are adapting us. Depends. The fast game. Yeah. If the paddles get harder, yeah, we're going to have to – it's going to get faster for sure. Yeah. But obviously players are hitting the ball harder too. Like you're putting more behind it. Like all that stuff. So it'll be interesting to see if it keeps getting faster. More and more. That'd be crazy. At what point does it top out? It has to at some point unless there is more, you know, paddle advances or ball advances or something or another. Yeah.

[00:22:13] But yeah, the level on Championship Sunday right now is just really, really impressive to watch. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Zane, you have been famously roasted online for speaking of level on Championship Sunday saying that Hayden is the world's only 8.0. I got you, bro. I love this. Lace is insane. How many times have you – I love that shit. How much have you watched that video? I have doubled, tripled, quadrupled down on that.

[00:22:41] I say when Hayden is playing his best at the top of your ceiling, you are the best player in the world. I get roasted by that because as soon as I said that, you went and lost a bunch of matches. But was that like right after Mesa, right? It was – I mean, I actually started – I think I started saying it before you and Anna beat Ben and Anna Lee for that – was that Mesa? Mesa. You won that one? Yeah.

[00:23:10] I just think that your ceiling is the highest, right? When you're firing on all cylinders, you take over the court more than anybody else. I would say Gabe is in that conversation as well. However, you being on the right side, it's a little bit more difficult to take over the entire court. For sure. So I think you have a little bit more player impact in your spot, which I think Ben, obviously, nobody would argue, he brings his A-level every single time, right? You sometimes don't, right? For sure. Yeah. 100%.

[00:23:40] I don't know. I appreciate that though. Do you think that you are firing at your best the best player in the world? I mean, that's crazy. You should ask someone else, right? All right, I'll ask Gabe. Yeah. He's the best player in the world when they're playing at 100% of their maximum capability. You're putting me on the spot. But I mean, truthfully, I think, you know, Hayden, there could be an argument that Hayden's there. I agree with everything you said.

[00:24:04] I think Hayden plays different game styles than Ben does, so it's tough to make the comparison. What's the word? Comparison? Comparison. But yeah, I mean, I think that, you know, Hayden puts more pressure out of anyone in the game. So if he's feeling it, you know, he could, you know, like, I hate seeing this guy on the championship court. So yeah, I mean, there's an argument. I'm taking it. I'm taking that as a W.

[00:24:34] Gabe Tardio said. Let's go, Gabe. Thank you, Gabe. Gabe said there's a W. All I heard was Gabe said that Hayden's better than Ben. But no, I think you're right. And so it's just crazy because as soon as he made that comment, like literally, I don't think people understand how to, like, listen and comprehend because everybody's like, Ben's the best player in the world. We didn't fucking say that he's not the best player in the world. We just said Hayden at his peak is the highest, right? So the highest peak. And I think Hayden also, you play like more high variance pickleball. So like when you're on it. You play more balls to the wall.

[00:25:02] Yeah, there's more risk and there's more reward. Right. Ben plays a more boring style, I think, a more safe style. Right. And doesn't make any mistakes. Right. Like he makes almost no mistakes. Right. You make mistakes, but it's kind of like in the budget. Right. And like you're going to beat Ben and Annalie when you when you're just on. Right. Like, I think I don't know, like when you like see different. Let's just say when you guys were like rolling in Mesa versus the next tournament where I think they were there. Like Utah. Utah.

[00:25:32] When they beat you. They're rolling. They're rolling. Ben was a I've never been. That was the best I've seen Ben. That first game was the best I've ever seen Ben play. And for me and pickleball, like it was playing him like he was unreal. Like I wasn't even playing that bad, but like after that first game, it was just like, holy shit. Like he can play really well. Like that was the best I've seen him play. It was wild. Wow. So in men's dubs, what does it take to dethrone Ben and Gabe?

[00:26:02] I mean, it's a really good team. But like it's really tough. I think about this shit every night because I'm taking Elisa Gabe too much, you know. But no, it's tough. You know, you have to have that consistency just like they do. And you kind of have to have I think the biggest thing is the hands battles. I think I don't know what the stats are. I'm sure someone has the stats, but I'm sure they win 70 percent of the hands battles in the matches. And I think that's a huge thing.

[00:26:30] Like when you start winning a few of those 50 50s, it changes the momentum. And but I mean, when you when you're going against Gabe and he's crazy. I mean, it's really tough to put the ball against them. Yeah, I was I was sort of surprised with the partnership switch up this year. Right. Obviously, last year you played with Fed. I wasn't surprised that she switched it up, but I was somewhat surprised that she didn't

[00:26:54] go with like an Andre and actually put Fed and CJ together. That also leaves JW and Christian, which are all three of those kind of put the players on some of the sides that they like. It would move you back to the right side. But I don't know. What was the thought process of going with Christian as opposed to any of the other players in like the big four team, obviously with Ben and Gabe being, you know, kind of off limits?

[00:27:23] Yeah, I mean, I just the first thing is Christian's intensity. I think I need that. I think that helps elevate my level. One thing was I I think I play my best and I think I'm the most dangerous on the left. And then. Yeah, I mean, I there wasn't a ton of thought. Like, honestly, I was like, hey, like Christian actually asked me and I was like, you know what? Yeah, like let's try it. Fed and I weren't doing as well.

[00:27:49] It was kind of like a weird situation because Fed and I won worlds right when I started to play the left. But I had already committed to Christian. So it was kind of like, I don't, you know, I'll try out with Christian. We'll see how it goes. And then, you know, the force comes to worse. You know, we just switch back and it's the same partnerships, you know, fair enough. So it wasn't like deep in thought, I guess. As you know, you can ditch your partner immediately after picking them. Right, Gabe?

[00:28:20] Oh, hey. How did that go? I just want to ask you, like, I think, you know, Ben picks up the phone and says, I want to play with you. You basically have to tell everybody else to go fuck off. Right. Like, that's just how it works. Right. Same thing with Anna Lee. Right. But like, how'd that go? Like, you know, you were playing with Andre and you guys were winning and then you'd make the switch and you're like, all right, I'm going to play with J-Dub. And then, did you guys even play a tournament? One? We played two tournaments. Yeah. Okay. And then Ben calls and is like, I need you.

[00:28:49] And you're like, oh, J-Dub, sorry. It wasn't like that. We're buddies. We're part of the Florida Five or whatever. I think there was a lot going on. Well, I think there were a lot of things to consider. I think, you know, obviously, like, I was training with J-Dub and I was good friends with J-Dub. And we've been kind of planning on playing together, like, for a while. And, yeah, well, I think the main thing, because I went with Ben, one, because he's the best player of, you know, all time. Ever. All time.

[00:29:19] Second, I needed to think about, like, myself first. Yeah. And, like, you know, just playing with Ben is going to benefit me so much more than, not on winning, but, like, sponsorships. Oh, yeah. You know, recognition, stuff like that. And then also, like, at that time, which I think was the main thing for me, at the time I was actually planning on going to India and play because I didn't have a PPA contract. Okay.

[00:29:48] My PPA contract, they offered me, like, it was really low and I don't think I was going to play PPA. And the fact that I had the opportunity to play with Ben, I think that made PPA, you know, double, triple the offer. So, I think, yeah. I mean, there was a lot more than just Ben is the best player in the world. I'm going to play with him. Yeah. There was a lot more things to consider. But, yeah, I think the main thing is I do think that me playing with Ben is what really got me to stay with PPA. Okay. Yeah.

[00:30:18] Wow. And John saved. We're glad you're here. Yeah. Was there no conversation of you guys teaming up? Because you guys were already on the shock together and playing together at that point, right? Because that was beginning of 2024. Yeah. You started playing with Ben beginning of 2024. Yeah. We also, we talked a lot about playing together. I think, you know, I would love to play with him. We actually played Australia together. You're playing this Australia together? This Australia. And neither of you guys called me for a partner.

[00:30:47] But, yeah, I don't know. I think, I think me and Ben said we're going to play the rest of the year. And then I told Hayden, like, anything that Ben doesn't play, we'll play together. And we just ended up playing pretty much the whole year. So, there was no room to, you know, get tournaments in. Sure. We're fired up for Australia, though. Yeah. I'm excited. The one, are you going to go right to Hong Kong afterwards, too? Yeah, we are. Nice. Yeah. So, all right, let's say there is a shock reunion.

[00:31:14] What team beats the Gabe and Hayden combo? Who does Ben pick up if not Gabe, right? Like, we talked about this quite a bit, actually. What did we come to? CJ, right? Yeah. I mean, it's hard to know what Ben would have picked. I don't, I think, you know, Fed, Christian, and TJ are very close on level. So, I don't know who he would have picked. I think it was between Fed and CJ. Yeah. If you ask me. Interesting.

[00:31:43] I put you as big favorites in that, yeah? I think, yeah. I mean, I think we definitely have a chance to win. Humble. Yeah, I mean, I don't know. It's hard to ask. Danny Pounce in and was in here before. It's like, yep, I'm going to beat Annalie. Yeah, exactly. Wow. Yeah, I mean, I don't know. I don't know. I mean, obviously Ben and whoever Ben plays with, it would be really, really tough. You know, I don't think we would win every single time we played him. So, I don't know.

[00:32:10] I think the best team, surprisingly, I was surprised how good Ben and Andre were in the two tournaments that they played together. Like, because Andre, they both play the same side pretty much exclusively. Andre played the right for two tournaments, and they just smoked everybody. At least, I think so. They won two goals. I think they played two tournaments together. They played one, I think. Or maybe one. They played Cape Coral. I think they just killed. Maybe I'm wrong. I don't know. I don't remember. I don't remember. They had tied matches, but I think they killed Fed and Christian in the finals.

[00:32:40] That's what it was. That's right. So, yeah, I was surprised. And I was surprised how well it worked out. So, I don't know. Yeah, and I think Andre would figure out how to play the right if he needed to. I would probably put that as your biggest comp if that was the case. Because I think Andre is just a crazy competitor. I think he's just a grinder. I think he would figure out the right side if he needed to. 100%. For sure. Well, I'm hoping that, Hayden, your ascent continues.

[00:33:06] Because I made the prediction that next year Gabe would drop Ben. So, I need that to be true. Yeah, that was my prediction. I said Gabe and Anna Lee are both going to drop Ben Johns. And Anna Lee is going to – and they're both going to pick you. Well, if I want to play Gabe, I'm going to have to start beating him. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So, we'll see. Yeah. Well. All right. So, Hayden, I'm going to tell a little story because I'm going to ask about where you get your swag from.

[00:33:34] And I'll tell you my first experience ever seeing you play in pickleball. Okay. All right. I think this was Newport Beach, maybe like 2021. 2021. Newport Beach, okay. Yeah, that – or maybe 2022. I don't know. And everybody's huddled up around this court. And I played with Warnick that tournament, I'm pretty sure. And so, he was like, dude, you got to check this kid out. He's hilarious. And I'm like, all right. So, me and Jeff are watching your match. And you're playing against Jeannie Arachina. And I didn't know either of you guys before this.

[00:34:05] And, like, all of your SoCal buddies were, like, watching you. And me and Jeff were watching you. I think Jesse was over there somewhere or another. Yeah, yeah. And I don't know what happens, but you and Jeannie just start mouthing off at each other so bad. And I'm like, dude, this is like an Andy Milonakis thing. Like, oh, this tighty kid is just, like, mouthing off to everybody. I think the ref said something stupid and you, like, went at her, too, for something. I was unhinged. You was unhinged.

[00:34:34] And I was absolutely loving it. So, that was probably when you were 15 or 16, something like that. Yeah, yeah. Like, so, have you kind of always had just, like, a I don't give a shit attitude? Like, honestly, I don't think so. Like, I mean, yeah, I guess from baseball, yeah, kind of. I had that confidence. I feel like a lot of the kids who play baseball are, like, have that kind of energy. But I think it really came out, like, after, like, hanging out with Jeff.

[00:35:03] And Jeff, like, beat that shit into me. Yeah, he's like, I was pretty quiet. And then, like, I hung out with Jeff for better or for worse. I'm not sure yet. For better. Yeah. 100%. And, yeah, I guess it just brought a lot out of me. And I think it's good. Like, my personality now is, like, more outgoing and everything. But, yeah, I think I've kind of always had it. But Jeff kind of brought it out, I guess. Brought it out in you? Yeah. So how do you, like, how do you prevent yourself from going too far?

[00:35:32] Like, obviously, you've launched a ball recently, which I loved. I think that that should be the new Crash Out meta. Yeah. Like, you know, you called Annalie a bitch a long time ago. I did, yeah. You know, there's... It wasn't too long ago. At what point? It wasn't even. Has it been a year? Yeah. Not even one year. Oh, you know what? Actually, my mom... I was trying to give you credit for... My mom was like, this is crazy. I don't know if this is bad to say, but my mom, I was with her, actually. And she was like, this is the one-year bitch gate or something like that. The one-year bitch gate.

[00:36:02] That's right. Yeah. Anniversary. Yeah. So that was a year ago, now that I remember that. So how do you... Wasn't proud. My mom's not proud, but it's a little funny now. Yeah. Obviously, you and Annalie are, like, it seems, like, close and fine. We're good, for sure. Franklin family. Come on. That's my family. Franklin family. No, we just hung out in Vietnam a bit. Yeah. I think everything's great. I think, honestly, like, it was a bit blown out of proportion. I don't know. I don't know. Like, it was just, like, a big blow-up, but... I mean, she... You know, social media.

[00:36:30] I think she didn't do any favors by the way that she handled it. You know? Which is fine. Like, fiery. Yeah. Yeah. But then how do you avoid crossing the line in the future? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I've gone to both... I've been there, the bitch.

[00:36:57] And then I've been to, like, the Too Chill, where it's like, oh, I'm like, this is boring, you know? And, you know, it's been, like, three years now. I've kind of figured out that, you know, I prance around, act like I'm him, and I try not to talk any shit anymore unless I'm really fired up, but... You're not talking shit anymore? What's going on? I don't know. I don't know. I feel like I don't even play that good when I talk shit. It's more like when I'm, like, kind of cruising around, like, being, like, just chill, you know? You're asking me? Yeah. I think it's the opposite.

[00:37:27] I think when you talk shit, you play your best. Really? Yeah, I don't know. With your cocky, kind of, like, mentality or, like, don't give a fuck about anything. Yeah, yeah. Maybe. You play your best. I don't know. I'm still figuring it out. It's tough to kind of balance it out. But I don't want to be, like, portrayed as, like, an asshole, you know what I mean? Because I'm not. But that's kind of why I go back and forth. For sure. And I don't think anybody that knows you on the tour, like, would say that. Like, I don't think you have any...

[00:37:55] I don't think you really have any haters on the tour. It's, like, the people online that are like, ah, this kid is, you know... Such a little dick. Yeah. We get that all the time. That's, like, if you... Hopefully you don't go on Facebook ever, but it's basically not on Facebook. That's the hard thing. It's, like, you know, pickleball is a sport that a lot of people that are, like, 50, 60, 70, you know, participate in. And they have, like, a specific, like, expectation on, like, behavior and passion. And it's all old school. And so, like, you just see these groups all the time.

[00:38:25] It's, like, as soon as you show any kind of personality, you launch that ball, you know, in that match and just everybody's just coming for your head, right? Yeah. It's just, like... I mean, it's... I think it's got to be hard, like, in a sport that has a lot of people that are older, like, I'm trying to figure out how to, like, you know, be yourself, but also be one of the faces of the sport for people that are, you know, primarily 50 plus. Yeah, like, I usually try to rein it in, but, like, when I have stuff like that, like, now,

[00:38:52] like, after the Annalie thing, like, nothing really phases me with the social media. Like, I really don't give a fuck, like, after that. You know what I mean? There was a lot. But you got bosses, too, right? Like, Franklin and any of your other partners or sponsors, we've got to... Probably, like, couldn't have been stoked about that. Like, about, you know, launching a ball or calling Annalie a B. Yeah, so the bitch, yes, of course, that's not good. But I've actually talked with, like, Franklin and, you know, they really like my personality and who I am on the court, you know.

[00:39:22] They really appreciate, like, the passion. And I've been with Franklin for, like, my whole career, basically. And, you know, they really respect me and how I am. So it's really good to kind of have Franklin back me, you know. Yeah, I gotcha. Yeah. Yeah, I've always thought it's a good idea because, like, who is somebody who sold more tennis rackets than anybody? McEnroe. And he was out there smashing them, right? Like, Kyrgios. You know, those guys are people that you love them or hate them like you know about them. And, yeah, I think people...

[00:39:50] I'm very much more on your side of things of, like, let people see who you are. That's much more entertaining than somebody who's buttoned up. And I catch shit for this because I say... Federer bored the hell out of me watching him. Like, obviously his game was incredible. But, like, I want to see, like, a little bit of emotion. I was always more of a Djokovic fan because, like, you know, you're going to see the highs, the lows, all that stuff. But you generally know what the guy's thinking. And you can kind of relate to that, right?

[00:40:19] I couldn't relate to Federer at all. Like, I couldn't just stay there stoic the entire time. So... I didn't even watch tennis, so I have no idea. Yeah, fair enough. Like, who is this guy? Yeah, I mean, I know who it is. I don't know. Shit. You know of him. So, Gabe, you're a little bit more of the opposite, right? I don't think I've ever really seen you frustrated. Like, I've seen you, like, down, right? But I don't think I've ever seen you mad. Like, have you ever gotten mad in a pickleball match? And, like, when you do, what's, like, your go-to? Like, you know, Hayden launches the ball.

[00:40:47] You know, Zane throws a paddle. You know, Zane Ford is hitting it into the ground. What's your stress relief? Yeah, well, I don't really have one. I think I'm pretty chill on the court. I think my mom would have, you know, Latina's mom, Latina moms, like, they. Would beat you. Yeah, she would, yeah, she would be mad. She'd get out the chancla. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, no, I think my mom is the reason why, you know, I keep myself, you know, chill

[00:41:15] and I don't do anything that Hayden does because, yeah, my mom would not like it. So I think, you know, just how I was raised, you know, when I was young and just personalities. I was going to say Hayden was racist. No, no, it's a gay point. Like, when I was a kid, like, I'd go to, like, my friend's house. Like, you know, I grew up in a Latin household and I'd go to, like, my white friend's house and then I'd hear my buddy talk to his mom, like, oh, she's going to hit him. She's going to hit him. Nothing would happen.

[00:41:44] I was like, you can say that to her? What? And then I'd go home and I'd try it and it did not work out. I mean, I think it's also personality. I think I have a pretty chill personality. Yeah. You know, I don't get fired up about a lot of stuff. Yeah. You know, like, if you see me, like, you know, win a championship, like, even my first championship, I'm like, okay, I'll lift it up, I guess. Like, I don't have a lot of passion inside me. If you want to see the passion, you got to go to the High Limit box.

[00:42:15] Actually, I do have a lot of passion inside me. It's just, you know, I guess I'm not in the right sport. I don't know. So, yeah. You're like the Nikola Jokic of pickleball then. Like, oh, I did my job. Now time to go to the horse races. The racetrack, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you could say that. Yeah, I don't know. It's, I don't know. It's weird. I don't feel much emotions. Like, yes, I get frustrated. Yes, I get pumped or whatever.

[00:42:45] But it's just harder to get it out of me. I don't know. So, speaking of, like, lows, I remember, like, I want to know what changed with you, Gabe. Like, you were in Premiere MLP and then, I don't forget, it was 2022 or something. Like, you did not make a Premiere MLP team, right? Challenger. Challenger. Challenger. Like, one of the only guys that get dropped from Premiere to Challenger. And I was like, uh-oh. The people figured it out. Gabe's not that good. Right?

[00:43:13] And then all of a sudden you just exploded. Like, did anything change in that moment? Because I feel like as soon as that happened, it exploded. Yeah, I think. Yeah, I mean, I think I felt that people doubted me. I think, you know, I think there's a lot of people that don't know what they're doing in Pickle. I think people think they know a lot. And I think they don't know shit. What are we talking about here, specifically? Just a lot of people. I don't know, like, many of the GMs. But I think, like, there's a lot of GMs that are, like, completely clueless. Clueless. Yeah.

[00:43:41] Even now, I feel like they don't know their stuff. There's obviously a lot of people in Facebook pages that, you know, just, they say dumb stuff. But, yeah, I guess you could say that. I think, you know, dropping from Premiere to Challenger kind of, like, fired me up a little bit. And wanted me to show everyone that I was actually good enough.

[00:44:06] Because I think what happened, it was, like, people thought that I was only doing well because of J-Dub. Because I was with J-Dub at the time. So, you know, J-Dub didn't pick me. No one else did. Okay. Yeah, yeah. I don't know. Yeah, I think that fired me up a little bit. Kind of, like. It was like you had, like, a Colin Johns arc where if J-Dub didn't pick you, no one else would. Same, like, with Ben and Colin. But then Colin went, you know, now Colin's coaching PPA Trailblazers and you're, you know, Ben Johns' partner. But, you know, and to be fair, I think a lot of people doubted you.

[00:44:34] And, you know, fun story is I still remember, like, I've told him to PPA before. But my kind of first experience with you, you know, I saw you got dropped. And then, you know, would make fun of you to my friends. Like, oh, this guy got dropped. And then my brother ended up qualifying for pro at the Masters in 2023, I think. And played you in the first round of Mixed. And I was like, oh, if there's anybody that you're going to want to play, the first round is Gabe Tardio. And boy, was I wrong. So you were a hater, huh? I was a hater. Oh, yeah. You were playing. I think you were playing with Mary Brasha.

[00:45:04] And it was like, you know, if he was playing in my opinion. You were one of those idiots I was just talking about. Yeah, I was. I was going to be honest. Still is, to be honest. No, I learned in that match. You, you know, changed me in the middle of that match. And I was just like, it's funny because he qualified. He only ever tried to qualify for pro once. Makes it to the pro draw. And then, like, we're, like, literally trying to come up with a game strategy. Like, oh, yeah, like, this is, he's beatable. Blah, blah, blah, right? No, wrong, right? You literally two-on-one them the entire time.

[00:45:31] I have an entire, like, you know, 20 minutes of game footage. And I don't even think I see Mary Brasha on the court the entire time. Like, you know, the strategy is hit to the weaker player. But you basically just stood in the middle and just big-dicked them the whole time. Yeah. No, I think some of that has to do with personality. Like, I'm not very flashy. So people, you know, I guess don't think I'm good enough. I don't know. I don't know. But I think, you know. The game is flashy. What are you talking about? That's true. Bro, it's everywhere. Personalities. I don't know.

[00:45:57] I feel like people that do dumb shit and yell, like, for example, Christian or, like, same forward. Yeah. Like, they get more attention and more recognition and stuff like that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Zane and Christian are a prime example of that. Yeah. Fair. So you guys are kind of known as players that, you know, when you play a rec game or practice or whatever, it feels like it's goof-off time a little bit. But how do you guys, like, is that true? And then, yeah. First off, I'll ask, like, is that true?

[00:46:27] Are you guys locked in in practice every time? Like, I try to get locked in and it just doesn't come out. I don't know. I think it's tough. This is going to be very controversial, but I just think pickball, for me, it's, I don't see it as, I do see it as a real sport, but for the longest time, I thought pickball was, like, it was a joke. I was just playing it because of the money the first couple years because I was good.

[00:46:56] People were telling me I was good. But I guess I didn't have the respect for the game for, like, until two years ago. So I think, yeah, I was just, I just fucked around pretty much every single practice. And, you know, the fact that I was playing pro fucking around kind of, like, made me think this was, like, a bullshit sport and stuff like that. I don't know where I'm going with this. I think I lost track. But, yeah, we do fuck around in practice a lot.

[00:47:26] You know, I've been trying to get better. But, yeah, I don't know. I think playing with Ben, like, when I practice, I mainly play with Ben. You know, it's just, I don't do much. I don't know. I get bored. I get bored. I don't know. Also, that being said, I think one of the reasons why I got good is because I fucked around a lot of practice. I was doing a lot of dumb shit. I was, yes, I was fucking around, but I was trying to figure it out stuff. Like, I was locked in strategy-wise, not locked in playing-wise.

[00:47:55] So, I think just fucking around and doing a lot of dumb shit, I think, got me to figure it out. Which, what were good spots? You know, what did this guy does well and stuff like that? So, yes, we do fuck around. Yeah, I remember, like, when I used to play you in 2021 or 2022, I knew, like, you hit two dinks to you, you're going to do something stupid or miss one. Right? No, that's accurate. Like, that was the, you know, the book on Gabe, like, pre-2022. Yeah. Right?

[00:48:23] Like, you were hitting strokes that everybody thought were just going to break down, and everybody was right at that point, too. Right? You weren't somebody that was going to dink 10 times in a row. However, now, some of that is your, obviously, your biggest strength. And I think, you know, the way, how wristy and everything you are on your dinks, anybody who was coaching pickleball, like, three years ago would have said, like, this guy is just He's not making it. Yeah. No chance.

[00:48:53] This is just, it's chopped. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right? But I do think that there's an element of, like, play or goofing around that helps you, and I think is a big reason why you see younger kids coming in and doing really well is, like, they're kind of having fun, like, fucking around, like, trying stuff out, and inventing basically new shots, too. That no tennis player, that's been, like, basically beaten out of you as a tennis player

[00:49:22] to, like, use your wrist or do any of this other stuff. Yeah. No, I think, yeah, like I said, I think a big part of the reason because of my success is, in my opinion, my thinking was always play your game style. Don't try to copy anyone. You know, figure your game first, and then you can, you know, get more consistent. So that was my thought process. When I was, like, playing and stuff, I wasn't taking it too much serious.

[00:49:48] So I wanted to figure out what my game was, what was working, and then, you know, I got more consistent. I think that's, like, kind of, like, that would be, like, my recommendation to a lot of people these days, right? Like, there's, you know, this is a sport that was dominated by a bunch of old people that said, this is how you have to play, right? We hit third shot drops, and, you know, we don't use wrist, whatever. And now, like, you see the kids that are coming in, right? Like, you see, like, Tama, right? Or you see, like, Will McKinnon, right?

[00:50:15] And, like, doing, to your point, like, it seems like they're playing dumb shit pickleball, and they just didn't learn from anybody that told them what not to do. And I feel like for the next, like, three to five years, as pickleball is still not a soft sport, the more that kids experiment, like, the better those people will actually be versus people that are trying to learn, like, a specific, you know, you know, like, you know, I'm not going to, you know, no offense, Zane, for example. Like, Zane, let's just say Zane coaches somebody, right? Zane's going to teach them how he plays, right? And maybe... I would never do that. Maybe there's a kid.

[00:50:44] No, so Zane teaches, I mean, Zane has his own pickleball school, which is fantastic, right? But then I also think that there are, like, some of these kids that are just coming in, doing whatever they want, like, you know, choking up on the paddle, or doing some stuff that people are just, like, not talking about, trying weird stuff. And then, like, for example, you know, you're playing with Will, you know, Will McKinnon. I like to use him as an example because he's beat my ass repeatedly and, like, a bunch of money balls up until then. And then, you know, had some cool shots against you guys, right? You know, I think his come-up game when he played against you and Ben, didn't win.

[00:51:12] But, you know, had, like, dink winners, right? And you're like, oh, I don't see this shit ever, right? And so, like, I don't know. I think, like, it just seems like for young kids right now, it's like, you don't need to be in a pickleball mold. Do what you want. To your point, consistency will come. Sounds exactly like... So, James Ignata, which always says, play with the most powerful paddle, the control will come eventually. Learn how to hit hard and then you'll get control. Well, you think James got that shit? I've been saying that for forever. Fuck James. You think he listens to you? You know? And so, I don't know.

[00:51:42] I feel like pickleball is, like, the opposite of a lot of sports where it's, like, go to the extreme and then eventually you can kind of, like, back down into consistent pickleball. Yeah, for sure. I mean, pickleball is, like, no one knows what's the right way to play pickleball. Pickball is a new sport. So, I think, in my opinion, my thought process always was, well, I'm not going to listen to anyone. This is just, like, there's only 80-year-olds playing. Like, they don't know shit. Yeah. Like, I'm going to do what feels right, what feels good, and then I'm going to get more consistent.

[00:52:11] And then, you know, if it doesn't work out, like, I'll follow whatever Ken says. You know what I mean? You got the famous quote where it's like, hey, you know, Gabe, what have you learned from Ben John? Nothing. You know? I got a lot of hate from that. He learned from me. He meant that. He learned from me. I did not say that. I did not say that. I did not say that. I don't think people realize how different the play styles is from playing to the left to the right. It's completely opposite. It's so much different.

[00:52:40] The shot making is the opposite. It's crazy. Break that down real quick. Like, for, like, the people listening or watching, what do you mean when you say… Break it down for the Facebook groups. Yeah. Everything is different. The spots you get attacked on. The spots you can't attack. The dinks you need to cover. Where you're hitting your drops. Everything is complete. It's almost like a complete different sport, almost. Like, it's insane. I mean, so, yeah.

[00:53:07] It's just like, for me, when I'm on the right and someone hits a good drop to me, where can I go to keep the ball away from the left side player? Right? It's really tough to kind of keep that ball away, right? And opposed to the left, like, if someone hits a really good drop, like, I can easily keep that ball away. You've got a lot of court. There's a lot of court to work with. The person coming in is only looking to poach with their backhand. Right. Right. So, I mean, that's kind of like what we're talking about. It's just completely opposite. With shots and everything. Everything. Every aspect of the game.

[00:53:37] Are there any shots? I know you guys have, like, really built your own games and not, like, copied much of anybody. But are there any shots emerging now, especially maybe even after going to Asia that you're seeing, that you're like, okay, that's pretty interesting. Like, I need to work on something or another like that. Like, anybody on tour have something that you're like, oh, you know, that's interesting. Yeah. I mean. Not for me, honestly.

[00:54:04] My thing with my game right now is honestly, like, just bringing a consistently high level is where I'm kind of working on. Yeah. No, I wouldn't say that there's, like, shots that I'm trying to learn. But going back to the other question. So, I don't think we have our own game. I just don't think we copy one. So, I don't copy, like, Ben John's whole game. If I like something from Ben, I think I copy his flick. If I like Tyson's Drive, I'll copy his drive.

[00:54:34] So, it's kind of like adapting and seeing what you like and adding it to your game. But it's never trying to be someone. Yeah. Yeah, of course. That was his question, though. Did you see? Oh, that was the other one. The question is, is there a shot that you've seen from anybody on tour that you're like, I want that shot? Not really. I mean, I think scorpions are pretty cool. Yeah. And there's a lot of people coming from badminton or, like, ping pong that hold their grip differently. And I think that makes them have faster hands or cooler shots.

[00:55:00] But I think if you're looking to consistency, I think the grip that we use, which is continental, is the best one. You guys both are continental grip? Yeah. All right. I'm still convinced tomahawks are coming to the game. It's just like – Stop trying to make tomahawks. I learned this from Ben, actually. I got a bronze with Ben Johns. I'm kind of a big deal. That's a good thing. Probably one of the only people with a bronze with Ben. The others have gold. That's actually true. It's harder to win a bronze medal with Ben than it is to win a gold medal.

[00:55:30] 100%. Yeah, yeah. So, we were playing Utah. Maybe I shouldn't say this. Never mind. You can or you can't. We can cut it out afterwards if you want. Say it. Okay. We were playing Utah, and he was basically telling me with his grip, since he's played Warnick, he's never going to let a ball go because his hands are so good just like this. So, he's like, if you're going to attack, go full on. I kind of learned that about with people who have scorpions and have good hands like that, you just have to fucking go hard.

[00:55:59] That's why I don't think tomahawks are good. Yeah, I'm not saying hold it that way. I'm saying you've got a sitter, and it's in your reach here or in your reach there. Where you switch to a tomahawk very situational. It seems hard to do, though. Yeah, I don't know. I'm convinced it's going to happen. I want to see you do it. I like it. Try it. Let's see it. I haven't done it as much because I don't play the left as much, but the biggest thing about the tomahawk is it increases your reach. Right?

[00:56:24] If your hand is, you know, I'm grabbing a paddle. Props. I'm not. Oh, the old Pro XR paddle. Oh. So, like, if your hand is gripped like this, right, I'm limited because my hand is in front of the paddle. But if I flip it over, I can get, like, four or five more inches of reach because my hand is behind the paddle. For sure. And so, if nothing else, it's like on a ball that's really dropping pretty quickly, like, you can reach in.

[00:56:54] You get a crazy angle like that, too. You get good angles. You get a little bit more pop, I find. But you're not somebody who struggles with the power. And I wanted to ask you about the actual technique of your flick. I saw somewhere online, somebody was saying, like, do you actually flick out and stop, like, try to snap it back? Like, when you're hitting a backhand flick, are you going, like, for it? Yeah, so, like, if it's high and, like, I'm really trying to, like, go, like, if Gabe's in front of me and, like, I just want to go, like, straight body, yeah, like, it's,

[00:57:23] like, quick twitch. Like, I'm not following through. It's, like, boom, like, just fucking punch it, you know? Yeah. But you are, like, sort of intentionally sort of, like, immediately recoiling. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, quick. Because also, too, like, I found out, too, like, when you're playing, like, Gabe and you hit, you think you hit a great shot and you kind of, like, are lazy with it and you're not ready for the next one, like, he sees. They're usually getting the ball back. So, it's good to, like, kind of be quick back to, like, your body, you know?

[00:57:53] So, almost no follow through. Just, like, just quick to it. Like that, Gabe? Yeah, yeah. That's good. You might actually do it better than Hayden, actually. Damn, what? You've been working on the... I've been working on it. You've been working on that wrist. He's working on the right. Wow. Very twitchy. He is. Yes. Oh, man. So, speaking of shots... How else is the food going to do his mouth? Jesus. I'd rather go there. That's gnarly. Oh, no.

[00:58:23] That's crazy. Brutal. Hey, before you go, I wanted to ask you guys, are there shots that should be, like, credited to you? And, like, so, you know, I asked if you emulate anybody else in certain shots. Do you see shots now showing up because of you guys, right? I don't... It's not a shot, but I would say that I'm probably one of the first ones to choke up in a battle. Yeah, for sure. I think I've seen a lot of people choke up more.

[00:58:53] I think Ben does it. I think Christian started doing it. And I think there's just a lot of people that do it. I don't know if I was the first one, but I don't know. I didn't copy anyone. That's just what felt right. Me as well. Yeah, it's not really a shot. So, I don't have a faculose for you, but can you help me on my paddle see how much you choke up? Yeah. Like, where would you... I would go... Okay. This feels right. So, you're not going, you're not going, like, table tennis, like, all the way on the

[00:59:22] No, because you still want the reach, right? And you want your wrist to be flexible and move around. If you go like this, you're limited. You don't want to actually get a hold of this. Sure. Of the paddle. Yeah. Because you still want to be able to rotate it. So, basically, like, your index finger is, like, almost all the way up to the throat here? Almost. But, like... Yeah. Yeah. Not actually on the throat. You're not actually touching the face of the paddle. So, what does this do?

[00:59:52] Like, so, explain it to me like I'm five. Like, so... Okay. So, the reason why I started doing it is because when I was, you know, starting, I used to do a lot of wall drills. Uh-huh. And when I was doing wall drills, my hands would be a lot faster just choking up. Yeah. You're a lot slower. So, basically, you're... You can get more spin on the wall and you get faster hands because... So, you get more spin? More spin because you can use more wrist. Yeah. Because the paddle makes...

[01:00:20] You choking up, the paddle feels a lot lighter. Yeah. Okay. So, that enables... Yeah. You can whip it more. You can be faster. You can... Yeah. Spin more. There we go. All right. I got to try. I've been trying, but it's just, like, so unnatural. Like, it's one of those things where, like, I just, like, have to commit, like, a whole month to doing it before it becomes, like, you know, second nature. But then I just haven't done it. No. Yeah. What? No. What I was going to say is that, yeah. I don't... I think it's...

[01:00:47] There's no reason for anyone to not do it because I even feel like even when I choke up, there's still space for me to put two hints on it. Yeah. So, yeah. I don't know what issues are you having with choking up the paddle. Maybe you're choking up too much. I could be. It's not like it's hard. It's just, like, for example, let me see the paddle. So, like, when I first started playing, you know, like, I used to hold the paddle with, like, a finger here. Like, you know, you see, like, a bunch of... Yeah, yeah. Right?

[01:01:13] And then, like, I had to spend, like, three weeks getting worse to put my hand here. Right? And so I'm just saying, like, I think for a lot of people, and maybe why a lot of people don't choke up right now is that, like, just the difference between here and here, like, it just feels a little unnatural. And so you have to, like, kind of, like, beat it out of yourself, you know? That makes sense. The last thing I would say about choking up, that it actually matters what paddle you use. Get fuckless. I'm kidding. Yeah. Because you don't want a grip to be too long. Because you're going to choke up about...

[01:01:43] You're always choking up the same amount. I don't know what's the difference. But you want to be, like, something said, almost on the rubber thing. Okay. Up here. So if you have a grip that is too long, it actually hits your... Your mobility. Yeah, mobility. Oh, interesting. It's back to the bottom of your... Yeah, if you see, like, what paddles I play with, I used to play with the pickle, which had short grip. Okay. And the fuckless, same thing. It's a little longer than pickle, but it's also... It's not long. Yeah.

[01:02:14] All right. So we've got Gabe with the choke up. Hayden, what about you? What shot should be attributed to you, if any? Full bag, obviously. That's what I put. I put... I actually put lasers to the head, but... Yeah. The full bag. That one, and I would say, like, the flick, like, angle, like, the put away, like, if it's up here, like, I hit that one in the kitchen, angle, I would say, and Ben started to do it. Everyone kind of started, or the left side player started to do it. Maybe that.

[01:02:42] I feel like you were one of the first people to really kind of go, like, on the backhand flicks, like, more of that, like, tip forward around the outside of the ball sort of, flick. Yeah. I don't think anybody did that, or that I remember before you. No. Everyone always, like, brushed it. Mine was more like a punch through with, like, side spin. And you lead with the paddle out here as you come through, right? Yeah. So you almost get, like, you almost get left to right side spin when you do this. Yeah. So what's the...

[01:03:10] What would you say is, like, the advantage of that shot? And that's not just on the putaways, either. Like, yeah, I see you kind of, like, slice across it on the putaways. Yeah. But, like, I see that shot all the time when you're just hitting your flick, even at the kitchen. Yeah. So it depends on the height and kind of where the ball is. Obviously, I have, like, that Ben Johns flick to kind of, like, hit those different spots. But with that one, like, if the ball's high enough, I think you can... That's... You're going to get the most power hitting the ball like that. It's more, like, flat, but it still has enough spin to kind of get in.

[01:03:39] And I think that's the difference between, like, Ben and I, like, with the different flicks. Like, he hits more of, like, a brush, and I hit more of, like, a kind of a punch flick, I would say. Yeah, yeah. Gotcha. Gotcha. But, yeah, ultimately, it gets on you a little bit faster. Yeah. It helps get you a little... I mean, you have... Again, talking about contact point, if you're really just rolling up the back of the ball... Right. ...you're here. Right. But if you lead with the front edge of the paddle... You have a little bit more reach. ...you've got a little bit more reach in there. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, maybe that helps. Yeah.

[01:04:08] I don't know who was telling me yesterday, but... Yeah. He was like, I don't know how you have so much reach. Maybe that helps a lot. So... Yeah. I mean, yeah, maybe that is, because obviously, I think you reach more for your height than anybody, right? Probably. Yeah. So... I think I'm, like, 5'10", though. 5'11". Close. Getting there. Is that real? Almost six foot. Almost six foot. That's what the... That's what I put on the tinder and hinge. I'm six foot, guys.

[01:04:37] Six foot and heels, brother. Yeah, yeah. So, in the last pickleball tournament, people always said, hey, Nico, why is your mouth blue? And I said, well, because you're screwed. Why are you screwed? Because I'm taking blue canatine from Troscriptions, all right, which increases my focus, my energy, my mental agility. Like, I feel limitless, right? Like, I watched a movie with Bradley Cooper, and I can never stop thinking about that every time

[01:05:04] I'm in my little four-hour window with blue canatine. Troscriptions gives me the edge, and throughout the pickleball tournament, I feel like I can see dinks better. I feel focused. I have a game plan. I can stick to it. And I don't get lost in the middle of the point. And what's nice is that sometimes I feel like I'm a little bit antsy, right? Like, some tournaments, it's not about focus. Some tournaments are about nerves.

[01:05:32] And Troscription has another product called Trocom. Now, if you see my mouth is a bit orange, you know, I am in zen. I got complete focus. I got complete calm, right? And so my heart's not beating out of my chest. I'm not going to be dinking shots into the net because I have a death grip on my paddle because I'm feeling calm. I'm feeling good. So I highly recommend, if you want to check it out, if you want the calm or you want the

[01:06:02] focus, you got different options for you. Just make sure you go to troscriptions.com slash dink, and you'll get a discount on your order. All right. I don't know if we have to clap again, but I'll probably clap that shit. Clap that shit. All right. So speaking of clap that shit, first question we have here, it's on the podcast. Hayden, can you verify? Did you? Why are you asking that?

[01:06:33] It's on the sheet. It's on the sheet. Next question. Okay. All right. Deal. We won't. We won't put that. Yeah. No. Leave it out. Private. I like to keep it private. Yeah. That's fair enough. All right. So, Gabe, you want me to ask you another question? Oh, hell no. Skip that one, too. Skip that one, too. All right. So, we got to clap again or what? Yeah. Keep clapping. Let's start over. We start.

[01:07:04] Those are fucking wild. Who asked that? Was that you? No. That was 100% Nico. Don't lie. Not me. No. That was you fuckers. We're getting on the hinge. All right. This could be a good thumbnail. Yeah. Next question. Hell no. Hell no. Next question. All right. Oh, my God. That's fucking crazy. That's what I like, baby. Come on.

[01:07:36] I'm trying to get every single bell. You didn't catch on to that. I did not get what you were talking about. I was there immediately. I was missing the subtle. I'm about whatever. I'm about whatever. I'm about whatever. I'm about whatever. The shit that we say that can't end up on the podcast is way better. Yeah. Sure. Sure. All right, Nico. Clap us back in. All right. You're up, Zane. All right. So, first off, you guys ever seen Zane's Pro vs. 5-0 videos? Yeah. I've seen a couple. Clips. Yeah.

[01:08:05] So, basically, he does sessions where he nerfs himself against... 5-0s. And I've been dying to get on the Pro vs. 5-0 session. Like, I... You got to hit 5-0. I did hit... Okay. First off, Duper just had a cool update where, like, now you can see your career high. My career high is a 5-1. So, one fuck off. Two... It is now, like, a 4-5, right? 4-5-6 or something like that. 4-5-9. I don't know. Anyway. It's all my partner's fault, not mine. But...

[01:08:33] So, I guess my question is, if we had to do some kind of Pro vs. 5-0s, right off the top of your head, like, what could we do to nerf Zane in a good Pro vs. 5-0s? What would be a good thing to do? To nerf me? Yeah. So, that I can win, right? I was thinking, we play... Like, if Zane and I play skinny singles, and I want you to tell me who would win. We play skinny singles to 11. But, if I bag Zane, he goes down to 0. Ooh, that's good. Can I beat Zane? That's interesting.

[01:09:02] And would that be not the best segment there is? I don't know. Zane's so skinny. Zane's fucking skinny. He's tough to hit. I don't think I ever get hit a lot, though. Really? I do feel like I get hit kind of a lot. Yeah. I think you could beat him. I don't know. I have no idea. What do you think, Zane? I really don't know. Think I could hit you? No, I don't think... I don't know how good you are, though. I don't think you'd be able to, like, score points. You might be able to, like, knock me down to 0 a bunch, but, like, I don't think you're going to score very many points. Right, I agree with that. I think I could score some points. Skinny singles? I think I could.

[01:09:31] I don't have to move too much. If we play straight-up skinny singles instead of playing cross court. Oh, yeah. You could cross court. I could cross court. Make it happen. We're here right now, Zane. Labs play. Give him a wooden paddle, no? What's that? Give him a wooden paddle. Yeah, a wooden paddle. Yeah. I think I beat you with a wooden paddle, for sure. You think so? Yeah. Do you play Sacramento? I didn't play that tournament, no. Dude, the paddles they used on Sacramento last year, they were tough to play with. I got the... I did the same... I did... You did one. We had a wood paddle pros versus 5-0s, and we won, I think, relatively easily.

[01:10:01] What about... Was it the same shape of a regular paddle? It was slightly different. It was like the ones you'd get... We would get in gym class. Right. But the ones at Sacramento, I did use... They looked like spoons. They were tiny. They were like thinner than the... Yeah. But I did use those, and it was pretty similar to what we did in our video. Yeah, they were tiny. I think that would be a good idea. I don't know. What could we do if it was Zayn against you guys that we could nerf you guys so that Zayn could beat you? Like, what do we have to do to you guys? Not much. We were playing together? Yeah, you guys are playing together against Zayn.

[01:10:31] Against me and Will McKinnon. Will McKinnon. What's the nerf gotta be? I don't know. Not much. Switch partner. I mean, I feel like regular practice, you got it. I don't know about that. While game is fucking... Game intensity. I don't know. You think we could beat you with wooden paddles? I think we got you with wooden paddles. I do think we got you with wooden paddles. I don't know. I don't know. I'm awful lefty, so...

[01:11:02] That was disrespectful. That was disrespectful. That was disrespectful. I was thinking the wooden paddles was disrespectful. No, but I'm saying there's people like James that are actually really good lefty. What is James? Like 5'5", 6"? Ben's really good lefty as well. Ben is like insanely good. I heard James beat Greg Dow's skinny singles. Yeah, yeah. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, I don't know what a good nerf would be. No grid, maybe? No grid? No grid? Yeah, like a pre-2020 paddle.

[01:11:32] Oh, like a fiberglass paddle? Like the old Franklin? Yeah. I don't even know how much... That doesn't nerf you, though. Yeah, especially like... That paddle is actually a lifetime model. I think it's a part of the C paddles. C paddles? Oh, like the old Onyx ones. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, like the Z5. Yeah. Yeah. That'd be a tough one. Yeah. Because that one not only doesn't have grit, but the ball actually just slides off of the paddle. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I feel like that'd be actually probably a pretty good match. Yeah. Like, because you guys' hands...

[01:12:02] And those things are pingy. You guys' hands would actually still be super good. I feel like we roll so much that we wouldn't... It would take away a lot of your offense. We wouldn't be able to get drops. But the hands would be like, honestly, probably not even any different. Yeah. Right? Like, I don't think you guys lose much in the hands battles with those. I think it's just getting to the line and then creating offense from there. Yeah. All right. So that would be it. I think that's a good... I think that would be a good nerf. Like, you guys with Z5s versus like me and Will. Yeah. I got one more.

[01:12:32] Speaking of... We're going to reverse the body bag one. I'm in on this one. I'm glutton for punishment. We're playing skinny singles. I'm playing against one of you two. But you only score points by body bagging. I like this. We're playing a game to 11. Who wins? I feel like Hayden... Hayden against... Better on body bagging. I'm really bad, so... Yeah, I think so too. Yeah? I feel like I got you there. Yeah. I think Hayden wins that for sure. Are you coming? To the kitchen line or you staying back? Yeah, I'm coming to the kitchen line. I'm coming to the kitchen line and I'm taking the punishment.

[01:13:02] Yeah, if you stayed back, like... Then I win, yeah. And you could make drops. Like, you'd be... That's a big if. But, um... Yeah. Me... No. We're just playing... We'll just... Even if we played it out from the net. We just start out at the kitchen. Yeah, I think I got you. Oh, God. I think Hayden wins. I think we should run one of those at some point. For sure. Give me a helmet and then... You should probably be wearing one of those anyway. Oh, that's funny.

[01:13:33] All right. You got anything else, Zane? Guess my duper? Guess my duper. Let's do guess my duper here. All right. Here we go. All right. We're doing guess my duper here. Guy. Top of the screen here. Zane, you got to do commentary. No, that was a disaster. Good drop. Ooh. Okay. That didn't actually look very athletic or good. It looked like what I would do. Ooh, that's a good cross. I still don't like whatever that thing was in the middle of his body.

[01:14:04] All right. Let's see. Paddle down. Oh, God. Jeez. That was ugly. Okay. He's fast. I would say like 5'2". 5'3". I haven't seen much thinking. Yeah. Neither have I. I'm going 5'2". Let's see. Paddle's down. I mean, he's not doing it. I like how she's not letting him take that. That shows she doesn't have confidence in him. I mean, all he's doing is he's hitting those balls up. I don't know.

[01:14:35] I haven't seen him hit a back and dink. I haven't seen him win a point. Has he been winning points? This is rough. Okay. There's a backhand. Ooh. Still hasn't dinked. Is that your tomahawk? Tomahawk. Oh. Keep in your pants, man. Okay. Hold on. We got to get some. Okay. I think 5'2". I would say 5'4". Okay. We're 5'3". Not now. Yeah, we do. All right. Let's see if I can find it. What's your guess, Nico?

[01:15:04] I'm going to say 5'1", 9'. You got specific with me. Yeah. I said 5'2". Okay. Oh, you got to sign in. I got to sign in? Sign in, bro. Yeah, I think they changed that. Login. All right. What's your password, my boy? That's a great question. Dooper 1, 2, 3. I hope it wasn't that. ****. That's valid. That's my Instagram password. What? What the? Okay. That's me. Save.

[01:15:34] Oh, that's you. Oh, okay. Hey, look at this profile picture. Wait, hold on. Look at this profile picture. You're in 3'9 singles? Damn, boy. You sexy. That's right. Yeah, it doesn't show your all-time high. But I did get silver in 5'0 at Sacramento. So, okay. Let's see if I can now go back to this thing again. Did everybody else get stabbed? Is that why? Have we done this? Dude, shit, Gabe. He's almost a 5'5. I feel like we did this guy already, too. Bryce Larson? Is that the same guy? I kind of feel like that game's familiar. Gabe was on. What did Gabe say?

[01:16:04] I don't know. 5'4. 5'4. Oh, jeez. Nice. All right. Well, Bryce- I'm sure 5'1. Yeah. I was thinking singles. But all right. There we go. Bryce Larson. Do I get a prize? What does he get? Sam, what prize do you want to give him? Do I get one of the- Do I get one of the- We are in Atlanta, so we'll see what we can do. All right, Bryce Larson, congratulations.

[01:16:33] Literally, I think this is the second time we've guessed your duper. I think we got lower this time, so poor guy. All right. All right, Zane. We have done guessed my duper. Any parting questions? Do you guys have any questions for us? Any questions for Zane? Well, no, I want to hear about the journey with Connor Derrickson. Like, in all seriousness. Like, how's that going? Oh. So, the Nico, the lefty reset. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. No, so it's good. So, he came up with-

[01:17:00] Okay, so one, first off, he said something that I think, like, changed my life. Which is, he said, don't be afraid to go hungry. Or, go to sleep hungry. The kitchen is only 10 feet away. I was like, you're right. Damn. So, yeah, so we've been doing this, like, lefty reset thing for 60 days. And I reached out to Connor because I was just like, you are like the face of fitness of Pickleball, right?

[01:17:27] Like, I was like, so I think, you know, if anybody knows anybody that's doing stuff there, it's Connor. You know, that Pickleball trainer. Is it that Pickleball trainer? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And so, he said, yeah, he joined. So, Connor provided, like, a ton of nutrition, sleep, supplementation, workout stuff, which was awesome. Gabe, I can send it to you, too. Please, I need it. I don't think I've seen you do ladders or whatnot. No, I need it. I need the fitness. I just saw one from you, Hayden, which was good.

[01:17:55] But no, we got, like, 500 people as part of, like, this challenge. That's sick. Yeah. And so, and we've had, like, very little drop-off, which is really cool. Like, each week, we have to do a check-in, right? And if you check in, you're entered in for, like, a price. So, we had some, like, shoes, pals, whatnot. So, there's incentive. But the cool thing is, like, we're a month in, and we've maybe lost, like, 20% of the 500 people, which is huge because usually you probably lose, like, 80% of the people in a couple weeks. That's good. Yeah. That's good.

[01:18:25] And so, he sent out these videos. He's been super supportive. And what's cool is, like, in the journey, like, what you get to see is, like, a ton of people make a bunch of, like, mistakes, but, like, they don't give up. And that was, like, the thing that also, like, Connor was talking about is, like, hey, like, if you fuck up, like, that's fine. And then just figure it out, right? Like, go back and do something else again.

[01:18:48] Like, there's, like, the analogy of, like, hey, if you got a flat tire, right, the first thing you do is not go to the other three tires and then pop them, right? Like, you just go fix the one tire. So, like, if you make a mistake, don't just go completely crash your entire shit and, like, get back and do the right thing. So, like, I've dropped some weight. A ton of people have. Like, we have, like, some buddies, like, on Twitter. Jake Elvarez, like, dropped, like. Oh, is he in it? He's in it. He was the number one leader after week one. Nice.

[01:19:15] And he's bunned because he had already dropped, like, 30 pounds before the challenge. So, he's trying to drop a bunch. But, like, he was going from, like, I don't know, 230 to, like, his goal is now, like, 160 before MLP, which is crazy, right? Got to get the MLP body. Yeah. Yeah. So, it's hard. Like, for me, like, I'm 39, right? And so, like, I don't have the same metabolism of, like, eat pizza and play pickleball and, like, actually be good. Like, you know, that immediately goes, like, straight to my hips. Straight to the love handles. Yeah, exactly. So, no, it's good.

[01:19:46] And the pickleball community is, like, undefeated in terms of, like, being able to, like, rally. And so, my hopes is that I also get to, like, continually work more with, like, Connor. Like, selfishly, I was like, man, if I reach out to this guy and he helps, maybe he'll help me too. And then he's been, like, super supportive. He's a great guy. Yeah. What's it been like for you? Like, you know, actually working on that stuff? Yeah. Yeah. I'm, like, super on and off. Like, every six months I'll be on for two months. Yeah. And if that, I mean, you can ask Connor. But I don't know what the longest time I've worked with him.

[01:20:16] But Connor really helps me a lot. I think he's a really good trainer, but I'm too on and off. I can't. I can't. Yeah. Yeah. That's my problem, too. That's the hardest thing. It's, like, staying consistent. Exactly. Yeah. I know Gabe was on that kick for a little, and now he's, like. Oh, yeah. No, I think it's the toughest part about, like, actually getting into, like, fit or whatever is our schedule. Yeah. Too many tournaments. Like, I feel like we haven't had, like, anything more than two weeks off.

[01:20:46] And, you know, I was in my fitness journey a couple months. Yeah. The starting of the year, I was actually, I gained, like, I don't know, like five, six pounds. Yeah. And then I just lost it all. I got sick. I lost it all. And then, like. Minnesota. Yeah. Minnesota. I got sick. I lost it all. And then I just stopped working out. Wow. Tough fire. Here's a question. Shout out to my son who he does track, right? And so he just started to track me. He's in sixth grade.

[01:21:16] So I want to. Do you guys. When was the last time you guys ran a mile? Like, just running? Okay. Yeah. You guys ever, like. Freshman year. Yeah. Okay. I was going to say. It's a couple days ago. It's, like, crazy. Because, like. So I was watching him. And he was, like. Hey. He called me. He said, hey, Nico. I just beat, like, my mile time. I'm, like. Oh, cool. What is it? Right? And, like. I run, like, an eight-minute mile. You know, whatever. Maybe. Nine minutes. You're on an eight-minute mile? Maybe shut the fuck up. I was going to say. That's fucking good. I've done it before. I've done it before. Right? So I actually. I ran a half marathon. Like. That's impressive. You know, a couple.

[01:21:46] A couple years ago. Whatever. But. He's. So he's not like me. Right? He's like. Oh. 525. I'm like. You're in sixth grade. And you're on a 525 mile. That is insane. Insane. Right? Very fast. I cannot get him to, like. Pick up a pickleball paddle. To save his life. And this is, like. I think that's something. That's like. Pickleball needs to figure out. It's like. Making it cool. For other people. That are athletes. So like. What I see a lot of times. Is like. Pickleball picks up people. That are like. Almost like leftovers. From other sports. But like. And I'm hoping that eventually. Like more and more athletes. Come and pick up pickleball. But like.

[01:22:15] Do you guys foresee. Like a time when. You need to be. Peak athlete. To be good at pickleball. Or. Can you like. You know. I'm not saying that you guys. Are not peak athletes. But I'm also saying that like. Gabe. You're not like. Like training like Novak Djokovic. I don't think anyone is. Peak athlete. Other than. Maybe. Christian. Maybe Fed. Yeah. Yeah. Do you think that's going to change? Like do you think you'll eventually need to. Be that person. To be good at pickleball? Yeah. I mean. I think it helps. I think it doesn't. Help.

[01:22:45] That much. So people are not gonna. Like. I mean. Yeah. I think pickleball. You can be. 190 pounds. I think you can be really good. I got a little waist. Yeah. Yeah. You don't necessarily need to be tall. I think pickleball is a. Very like. What's the word? Like you don't need to be. Super fast. Like I don't consider myself. Super fast. Super strong. Yeah. It's just like basketball. Like. You need to be.

[01:23:14] At least 6'4". 6'5". No. You need to be athletic. To play basketball. Well. And the height though too. Like you don't need a certain body type. Yeah. To play pickleball. I feel like. Obviously you can't be like. So. Obviously it's beneficial. I don't think it's. It will make a huge difference. Yeah. So technique is always going to beat physicality. Essentially. You could just take a freak athlete. And implant them into pickleball. Yeah. Yeah. We talked about this on the. When we're talking to Danny earlier. And where it's just like. Is. Like. Like table tennis. For example. It's just like. Seems to me like all skill. Right. Right. And tennis tennis.

[01:23:44] Tennis is like a ton of athleticism plus skill. Right. And like pickleball. I feel like. Is it more table tennis. Or is it more. Tennis tennis. You know. Like where. Athleticism matters or not. And I think in doubles. Like I. I would actually say. It's slightly more. Towards table tennis. Pickleball is. And that. Which is why. I feel like a lot of people. Say that. You know. Asia is going to overtake. And like dominate pickleball. In like 10 years. Because they can like drill. You know. The skill. Forever. Forever. Yeah. No. I would. I would disagree on that. I think that. The two main things about pickleball. Is one is talent.

[01:24:14] And then the second man is. Actually like. Being. Smart. In the court. Okay. A lot is IQ. IQ. I think. Yeah. Like a lot. I know a lot of people. You know. Make the reference of like. Chess. But I actually think. I don't consider myself very smart. But I think. I study the game enough. So. That like. You know. I actually know. What's going on. Yeah. When to attack. And which spot to attack. And stuff like that. Wait. Do you really think. It's like a chess match out there? For sure. Yeah. Yeah. Like. Kind of the game theory around like. Okay.

[01:24:44] I've attacked to their forehand twice. Now I got to switch it up to the backhand. But they think I'm going to switch it up to the backhand. Is it that type of stuff? Or are you talking more just like the patterns? And just. A lot of pattern recognition. Everything. Everything is. You got to know. What shot he does well. Where does he go with that shot. And you kind of like. You're already. You know. Planning on covering certain stuff. Yeah. I think it's just reading. What they. People do good. Reading what people. People struggle with. And just. Yeah. It's crazy too. Like. Like for me. I don't know about Gabe.

[01:25:14] But like. I'm thinking like. When someone's hitting a certain shot. Like. There's a thought of like. What grip does he hold? And like. Yeah. Where he can actually take this ball from this height. You know what I mean? So like. With Ben. Like. Or Gabe. Like. If. Let's just say Ben's backhand. If Ben's backhand. Like. It's super low. Right. But like. You can kind of see him like. Like. I don't know. That's a bad example. Looking to flick. Right. Let me think of a better example. Like. I'm trying to think.

[01:25:45] I get. I just think. I just think. I'm trying to think. Hold on. Okay. Yeah. I'm thinking. I'm really quiet. No. I just. This is tough. Now you. You talk. I'm going to think of an example. The thing is. I know what he's trying to say. It's tough to put in words. But people don't realize how much. Thought. And thought. And actually like. Knowledge. I think that's what. Makes the difference. Because again. Like. You don't need to be. Freak athlete. You don't need to be. Like. You can. You can. Be really good. You can be consistent. But. What makes the difference. Between.

[01:26:15] You know. As in. The top 30. Or. You know. Anyone. It's really. The understanding. Of the game. And. And. Reading. Their shots. That's what I think. Caden was trying to say. Like. I think we have. Good idea. On. When is. Someone's going to flick. Or. When is he going to take it out of the air. Stuff like that. And also like. Yeah. Where they can actually. Realistically. Make that. Right. So the pattern recognition. Right. That's the biggest thing. And I think that's. That's not even something. That you can necessarily.

[01:26:46] Articulate all the time. What exactly you're looking at. And it's certainly not something. That you're thinking about. In real time. It's like. Okay. You just see it. And your brain just knows. Like. You know. I think. You know. A good example. Is somebody like. Dennis Rodman. Who most people wouldn't accuse. Of being that smart. But like. The guy was a basketball genius. In terms of like. Getting boards. Yeah. You need me to explain that one Hayden? Getting boards? You know Dennis Rodman? Yeah. Okay. Getting rebounds. All right. All right. Good. Good. I understand this one. You didn't know the other reference. I had earlier. No.

[01:27:15] I didn't. I got that one. And then we were talking about tennis. I think. You know. You said you were not a big fan of Federer. But I think that's what made Federer stand out. I think his tennis IQ was. Yeah. Better than anyone else's. What do you guys. I think you guys are two of the. The smartest players. For sure. Like. Just in terms of. Like. Maybe not even necessarily court IQ. But just in terms of like. The pattern recognition. And whatnot. Right? Do you think that comes from.

[01:27:44] Playing as a younger kid? Because I've got a theory. Another theory. That. Pickleball. Is going to end up like. Professional gaming. Professional gaming. Players peak. At like. 17 years old. Because. That's when your neuroplasticity. Like. Your ability to recognize patterns. And learn new things. Starts to go downwards. And that's also where your reaction time. Starts to go downwards. And you know. Annalie has been dominant. For forever. And now we have. You know.

[01:28:13] Young guys like you. Coming in. And dominating at the top of the game. So like. Do you think that. Doubles and pickleball. Is going to be similar. Where it'll be dominated by. You know. Guys in their early 20s. As opposed to something like. Basketball. Where. It's dominated by people. In their peak physical form. In the late 20s. Yeah. I would agree with you. I don't know about 17. But definitely like. I think around the 80s. Early 20s. Early 20s. Yeah. For sure. Yeah.

[01:28:43] Because like. Like we were talking about. You don't need the. I mean. Look at me. Look at me. Look at Tama. Like you. You don't need to be like. Athletic. Or you do. In a sense. But like. I don't need to look like Christian. To like play pickleball. You know what I mean. Yeah. Yeah. That's inspiring. You got. You got chance. Sneaker. You just. You need to get smarter. You got smarter. That's basically. That's basically what we're saying. That's basically what we're saying. People are like. You got to get skinny. No. You just got to get smarter. You're fat and dumb.

[01:29:14] Because just catches strays. Oh my god. Yeah. So for the lefty challenge. Do the fat jokes from me help or no? Yeah. They just. You know. They motivate me so much. You know. I'm just like. It's just. It's worked my whole life. You know. Negative reinforcement. I'm somebody who actually does. Like. Learn from. Like. I like that. Like. Negative reinforcement. Be like. That shot sucked. Fucking fix it. Yeah. So like. Hasn't worked. But. Ask him your question. Is Unc Zane chopped? Oh no. Is Zane a chopped Unc? Is what I.

[01:29:45] Well. That's what I learned from my kids. No. They're like. Yeah. Anyway. No. So I got. So. Speaking of like. The court IQ. Just one question I have is like. Where. Let's just say I'm like. 5.0 player. Where do you. Where do you go to learn this shit? You know what I mean? Like. I feel like there's just. Videos everywhere that talk about like. How to hit a shot. But like. How do you go and actually learn court IQ? Is there a way to do it? Or you just gotta. It's just. You gotta get high level games. And move to Florida. Yeah. High level games and experience. I think.

[01:30:15] I learned it. Experience and. Actually watching a lot of film. I think. Not to hate on the. Like. Small Reels. Where they teach you a shot. I think they were helpful. But I think. Seeing a bigger picture. Matches. Yeah. And actually. Instead of like. Seeing matches and oh. That's a good shot. More like. Why? And like. What was. The three balls before that. That he hit the flick or whatever. Stuff like that. That I. You know. When I was just starting. I was watching. Ton of film. Yeah. And. And stuff like that. And then.

[01:30:45] Putting that to. You know. Experience and. Playing yourself. And trying to like. Mimic and stuff. I think that's what. And. And playing a lot of rec too. So like. If you're playing with the same three guys. Over and over. For fucking two years. You're not going to get better. Like I know. For me. And probably Gabe. We've played so many different people. In pickleball. Like. We've seen like. Pretty much everything. Like someone can hit. Every shot they can hit. And I think like. Players kind of limit themselves. When they have this group. And it's a good group. But like. They play each other for. You know. Their whole pickleball career. And it's like.

[01:31:15] You're not. You're not seeing any variation. And I think. That kind of can like. Like. Drastically slow down. Your improvement. Of the game. That's also why like. People in Florida are like. The best players. Because they play against. Ten different game styles. Yeah. Like people in. Charlotte. They only have like. Four people that just drill. And play against each other. Every week. At this point. You have to move to Florida. If you want to be a top ten player. Are there any top ten players. Outside of Florida? It's not a hat. But it definitely helps. It helps.

[01:31:44] But the thing is like. There's so many players now. It's like. If you're not. If. I mean. This is how it is. I'm going to tell it how it is. If you're not in that like. Top ten. Or like in that group. Like. No one's probably going to play with you. Honestly. You might get. One of us to drill. Like. Drills. Yeah. Once a week. But it. It's tough now. It's very over inflated already. Yeah. So basically. You guys have like. Your top ten group. That always plays. And then like. If you're like. Number thirty. You're playing with. You're not playing with you. Right. Well here's the thing. I think there's.

[01:32:17] Florida that even the top thirties. Can get a good group. Like there's. Insane amount of like. APP players. There's like. I think the. The five o's are the highest. Five o's. Never. Yeah. So like. So I guess my thought is like. Let's just say I'm like. Spencer Lanier. Or like Aiden Shank. Right. Like. Somebody that's like. Good APP player. Lives in Florida. Do they have a chance to get. Like. How are they going to get. Like. Are they going to. Do they. You guys play with these guys. Or like at that point. Are they. APP. I don't even touch them. No. It's not like that. I don't. To start off. I don't practice much.

[01:32:47] Shit. Like how many. How many times have we practiced. I don't practice with him a lot. Lately. I've been. I've been. I've. Ever since I moved to Florida. I've taken rec and everything serious. And I think I've seen like a. A huge jump in my game. I mean. I like. I'm playing good ball right now. Gabe's a fucking freak. He's just talented. But. I don't know. What was the question? I forgot. He asked the question. Oh. Like. Yeah. You guys have like the group of the top 10. That will play. You know. You and Fed and Gabe.

[01:33:18] Yeah. And Anna Lee and George and Jada. But then like. I'm a 6'3". You know. Let's just say I'm Aiden or Spencer. Right. Yeah. I'm like. At that point. Am I. I've just got to get it lucky. And get in with a group. Yeah. At that point. I think it comes to like personality. And how much someone likes you. Right. That's what I found. I was like. Hey look. I'm a 4'6". But I. I'm kind of cool online. So. And they're like. Okay. I'll play with you. Yeah. I have a. No. Exactly. I'm going to play. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A.

[01:34:08] A. A. A. I think you would have to have someone at the top of the game sitting there watching with you and telling, this is why this happened, this is why this happened type of a thing. You've got to see it through your own eyes too. That's true. Even if I told somebody something,

[01:34:35] it's not real in their mind until they've seen it themselves, I feel like. Yeah, it depends on how they learn too. If you're a visual learner or hands-on. Yeah. It all depends, I guess. All right, well, I'm running out of storage on the thing over there. So I think that's the sad end to the pickle pod. Unless you had like, I got like five minutes left. No, I'm good. I think Hayden's mom's calling him. She's called me. Uh-oh. I don't know what's going on. Oh, my Tinder's going on. No, I'm just kidding.

[01:35:07] Lots of matches here. What are you guys doing today? You guys got a free night. What are you guys doing? We're going to go to Benihana. It depends, it depends. Is Shepard here or no? Shepard can get us in some interesting places. Into trouble. Yeah. Yeah, but it's only Monday. So you got plenty of time to recover for. True that. Thursday, Friday. Yeah, actually, let me ask you that. Like, at what point are you like, all right, I got to lock in on the weekend?

[01:35:35] It's like a game for a championship Sunday. I'm the wrong person to ask, honestly. I mean, we might need to cut this out because my mom might watch this. But we actually went out a couple Saturdays. I've never played better. I beat Ben and Annalia. Every time. Every time.

[01:36:05] It's insane. I don't know what happened. He beat me and Ben after we went out until like 3 a.m. or whatever with no sleep. Vegas, same thing. And then Mesa, exact same thing. And I was on the one. Those are like the times that we went out on like before the finals or whatever. He placed his best when we went out. After Mesa was like the most impressive. Yeah. Because like I was dreading it. I was like, damn, I really want to lock in for this one. And you know, they kind of dragged me out. I was like, all right, fuck it. So, you know, I just went balls to the walls.

[01:36:36] And I think just a good night, talking to girls, having a good time with your friends. Like that was something for me. I don't know. Okay. There we go. That's the key. I mean, Gabe too. I mean, the guy wins a men's final every time. Well, Gabe, probably you should keep Hayden at home then. That's true. That's true. I'm hanging out with Zane. Zane's in bed by nine o'clock. This is true. Hasn't made a... I went to bed at 8.30 last night. Hasn't been Wednesday. Really? Yeah. Yeah. No, I don't care enough. Just right. I don't care. Dude, you guys are the most opposite. Like Zane's schedule is I wake up every... So, I will text Zane.

[01:37:06] And this is how it works. Like I text Zane at, I don't know, 12.30 in the afternoon. And I don't get a response until Zane wakes up the next morning. And no matter where it's at, like, it's usually on the East Coast. So, I get a message every morning at two o'clock. And Zane's, like, woken up at five just to answer his message. That's insane. Yeah. Like a clock. Five o'clock he wakes up. Eight o'clock he goes to bed. That's just so desperate. He's always texting me. I text him back right away. That's funny. Wow. All right.

[01:37:35] So, we'll see you guys out Saturdays. Saturday night, Friday night. Yeah. We'll see. We'll lock in. Like I said, game four, game five. Right? You got to be, you know, back against the wall. Ready. All right. Cool. All right. Well, that's pickle pod. Pickle pod. Sweet. Are we clapping again or?