No Sleep. No Rules. Just Winning. w/ Gabe Tardio & Hayden Patriquin

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[00:00:30] Alright, so speaking of clap that shit. The first question we have here on the podcast. Hayden, can you verify, did you ****? Why are you asking that? That's crazy. It's on the sheet. It's on the sheet. Next question. On the ****? Nico, you wanna kick us off? Yeah. But did yours just start? Yeah.

[00:00:59] Don't you need to clap while your thing is rolling? Probably. You just do it. We gotta leave this in. There we go. I like that. Alright. We got a special edition here of the Pickle Pod. I am your main host, Nico the Lefty. We got Zane Navratil as always. And we also have Hayden Patrickwin and Gabe Tardio. And as you can tell, we are not in our normal place.

[00:01:28] I am not in my parents' house, which by the way, if you guys didn't know that's where my studio is. Zayn's is... Dude, you can't be saying that Jimmy Miller's gonna have a field day with that. That's true. That's true. I don't give a **** about Jimmy Miller. Episode title is I don't give a **** about Jimmy Miller. No, but we're over here in like the wildest pickleball facility. This is a pickleball facility that has like a multi-million dollar recording studio where like Britney Spears has recorded. We're in Atlanta for the Atlanta Slam.

[00:01:58] There's like a full gym, a sauna, a recording studio. I think there's like a trampoline park right, you know, attached to this building. It's bizarre. Anyway, if you guys want to check it out, what's the name of this place? Atlanta National Pickleball Club. Atlanta National Pickleball Club. You should check it out if you guys are here. This is fantastic. All right. Anyway. You guys gonna hit the trampoline park or what? Yeah, for sure. I saw it and I was trying to get out there. They wouldn't let me. Who wouldn't let you? I'd have an adult present. I'm kidding. We're off to a good start. All right.

[00:02:28] Awesome. So, Zane, why don't you kick us off with some questions? So you're not prepared basically is what you're saying. All right. I got all the stuff here. I'll start off with, since we're going into MLP season pretty soon here, I'll start off with some shock culture stuff. Because I think there are probably two to three teams that have really actually kind of built a real culture. I would say that the fives have built a culture, the shock have built a culture.

[00:02:57] Give me a break. The five built a culture winning and then they shipped you off to Chicago? Chicago. Okay. To go build the culture. To leave the culture, yeah. But how is, obviously like, it's, you guys all seem to enjoy playing on the shock, of course, but it just feels like there is a good amount of pressure from, from ownership, from the outside looking in. Like, I'd be curious your guys' experience on playing on that team, how you deal with everything and, yeah, just general thoughts on shock culture.

[00:03:27] Want me to start off? All right. Yeah. I mean, the owners, as you know, are the Shayfetts, right? Very competitive father-son duo. They definitely want us to win, but I don't know. I think like the last tournament we played Dallas, we kind of like, I think we all kind of were like really burnt out and we're like, you know, fuck this. Like, we just want to like chill. And we kind of had the mindset of like, you know, like we're going to take this lightly. We don't really care, win or lose. And I think that kind of helped us. So I think we developed in that way.

[00:03:57] But I don't even remember your question. But, yeah. Do you feel like there's like, I don't know, some undue pressure or, or like, is it too much like competitiveness or? Yeah. I wouldn't, I wouldn't say it's too much. I think, you know, as you know, Anna and Kate, they're like, you know, pretty intense people. And so are the Shayfetts group, which I think it makes us play better. Like, bro, could you imagine a team with me and Hayden with like no Anna Bride? We wouldn't even practice.

[00:04:27] We wouldn't practice. We wouldn't practice. Like we would be fucking around. Anna's got us there at 8am every fucking morning. Yeah. So I think, I think it's, it's a good combination. Obviously, you know, the Shayfetts, they, they're like, they've done really good in life. So I think they expect us to do really well, which, you know, adds a little pressure, but I think it's honestly, I think we need it. And I think it's good to have that pressure for us to like, you know, keep us in line and then, yeah. Yeah. Do you think that comes more from Anna or more from them or combo?

[00:04:55] I think it comes from everyone. Everyone. Yeah. And Eric Lang now is like the new babysitter. It used to be Anna and Kate. Now it's Eric Lang. So I was wondering what his actual role was. It's nice. He's got a title now. No, no, no. Eric's like the coach of the team. Eric actually helped, helped Dave and I a lot with like, um, men's doubles. Like we were like, obviously we should have been a lot better. Um, and then Eric kind of helped us with a few different things. And like, we really like skyrocketed with like our, uh, stats and stuff. Yeah.

[00:05:22] I think MLP Columbus, I think we lost to Jay and Noah. After that, I think we, we started to win everything. We locked in. Yeah. Was that last year you guys lost or you guys? Okay. Cause you guys were good two years ago. Last year you guys were incredible. You guys only lost once or until finals. I don't remember. Yeah. Almost no losses. Once or twice. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I just think he was, he was a good coach. Like he was telling us like a little bit of strategy.

[00:05:52] Um, he was just more like a support thing. And he, he, like, I think the main thing for us is we need someone to keep us relaxed and keep us locked in. Cause that's like, I think me personally, I get bored a lot and, and I start fucking around and stuff like that. Nice. I'm so fucking good at pickleball. I can just get out there. I think Hayden is the same. I'm fighting for my life. Yeah. It's tough to bring the intensity sometimes, but I think, I think another thing that helped us too, like Gabe and I can hit, like, I don't, I don't want to sound like fucking cocky, but we can hit like any shot.

[00:06:21] And like, we, Eric told us like, talk a little bit before, like you're going to serve and like, where are you going to, where are you thinking to hit the drop? Where are you going to like, what's your plan here? And like, I think like we talked a little bit about like where we're going to hit our drop before like everything. And like, it kind of like helped us get to the net, which were, we really struggled. Um, and I think that helped a lot. So when you guys play a team like the New York hustlers, do you guys ever just nerf yourself on purpose to make it more interesting? Like, like I'm going to only hit drives.

[00:06:51] I'm only going to hit drops. I'm working. I play my opposite hand. Like, do you guys do any of that kind of stuff? Not really. Every time we play the New York hustlers, it's like 11-1, 11-2, 11. Okay. I think we want to just get out of there as quickly as possible. Yeah. Why am I even here? Yeah. Zane's yelling at us and like, it's going crazy. Other Zane. Yeah, Zane Ford. Oh yeah. It's going crazy. I still remember MLP Dallas. I was playing in a money ball at the same time you guys were playing in Dallas and the two people that we played in the finals had higher dupers than every player on the New York hustlers. So, but yeah. That's crazy.

[00:07:20] I think that's where like Rich and Ross come in, which I think is so important. Like, like when we play against New York, like we're not locked in. No. And then Rich, we got Rich into silent. Kill him! Kill him! Yeah, cause like those guys know pickleball, but like not to the extent where it's like they probably don't know that like, yeah, this is going to be a blowout regardless of what we do, right? Yeah. No, they don't care. They don't care. They want us to win 11-0, 11-0, 11-0 every single match.

[00:07:48] Which again, it could be like put us pressure, you know, it could be bad, but I think we take it on a good way. You know, I think it makes us lock in, which we need it. Yeah, I'm curious to know what you guys think. Like, I think some players are at their best when they're like kind of loose, having fun, joking around, like taking the pressure off themselves that way. And then some other players are like, you know, best when they're like, yeah, kill them, like completely fired up.

[00:08:17] Like you see Anna Bright crazy eyes. Once you get the eyes, you know it's coming. Like, so there are definitely different styles, right? Do you guys feel like you are more one way or the other? Like better loose or better intense? I think for me, it needs to be a kind of like combination where I'm loose. I'm not overthinking. But also I need to have pressure for me to like, you know, lock in and stuff. Because like Kayden said, like, you know, I don't want to sound cocky, but like we, we

[00:08:46] have so many different shots that we could hit. So if we don't have, you know, if we're like relaxed or whatever, we'll start doing like stupid shit. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like this is why you and Ben lose a bunch of games. Like I was like, you guys are not allowed to match, but you guys lose more games than I would have ever expected. Yeah. I feel like it's because you guys throw in random. Maybe because you just fuck around. You know what I mean? Sometimes I, sometimes I literally see, or like Ben will just start throwing a lobs up over and over and over and over and over.

[00:09:15] And I was like, wow, a little bit of game is rubbed off on Ben. Yeah. I remember that Texas open one. I think you guys got pickled in a game by Luke Pham or Lung too. We did. Yeah. Yeah. Texas was super interesting because we went to three games every single match except for the semis and the finals. Except for the top. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. That makes sense. So one more, one more question on the shock. Do you think like there's something to be said about being like wanting it too much?

[00:09:44] Cause I think that in the finals, right? Like our, our team, the fives, our problem was probably that we wanted it too bad. Right. And then that's, you're trying to like overdo it a little bit. And I do see, you know, maybe a little bit of similarity there. Cause you guys had the same thing happen to you up one game, both years in a row. And I think lost to, to then Columbus last year. And then it was Dallas the year before. Yeah.

[00:10:09] We were up one game in the final, both years, combat other team comes back and loses too. Do you think there's something to like wanting it too bad? A hundred percent. And I think that it kind of comes back to what I was talking about at Dallas. Like we just need to like, obviously we care, but we needed to like not care. You know, I think it loosens us up and we all play like our, our top level. Like we, we played like out of our mind in, in Dallas, I would say. And that was the tournament where we're like, we don't give a fuck. Like we should just, you know.

[00:10:38] I mean, yeah, the season was pretty much over. So I don't know. That tournament made no sense. Like why would we have a... I thought you guys got the one seed because of that tournament. No? Maybe? Yeah, but it might've been because all they had to do is beat the Hustlers or something like that. Yeah. Oh yeah. That's right. There were some good matches in Dallas. There were. Yeah. Good meaningless matches. Yeah, exactly. The question that we actually literally put on here was, are you guys chokers? I mean, you could say that.

[00:11:06] I think, you know, I mean, we definitely don't play our best. Like look at Columbus. Like Columbus, it's a great team. You know, Andre, Paris, like they're, they're awesome players and they're even better competitors. But, you know, we've been kind of like blowing them out on the regular season. Like if you look at our, I don't know, scores against them, it's like 3-0, 3-1, 3-0. Like it's insane. Yeah. And then we lost 3-1, you know, we got blown out. Yeah. Oh no, we went to the ring breaker actually.

[00:11:35] We just didn't win a match. We didn't win one. Yeah. We lost 2-0. So I think it's kind of like what you said, maybe we're chokers. Maybe we're burned out. It's, you know, it's a long season where like, we're always like, you know, so locked in and then, you know, PPA right before. So I think, I think it's a little bit of both. I think, like Sane said, is like, we want it too much. Yeah. We've been like, we literally won every single point for like the whole season. And when it gets to playoffs, we're burnt out. You're like mentally burnt out.

[00:12:05] Like, holy shit. This is the moment we've been waiting for. Yeah. And then it's like tough. It's almost like shaking. And then I thought the court at, not saying the court was bad, but I feel like it was not ideal for your guys' play style. Yeah, New York. The bounce wasn't very like high. I felt like it was like, it was like tailor made for two, six, five guys to beat you. 100%. Yeah. Well, we, I mean, everyone was in the same boat, but no one got to practice on those courts because it rained and it was wet.

[00:12:31] But I mean, like also, everyone being in the same boat doesn't affect everybody equally. Right? Like, like slow conditions or, or the ball not bouncing as high. You guys are two of the best players at off bounce speed ups. Right. And if it doesn't bounce, you can't off bounce speed up. So. Yeah. I don't know. We could put it as chokers. I guess we like. That's good. That's for sure. The thumbnail is just going to be chokers. The two of you guys. We are chokers. All right. With a ball gag.

[00:13:00] I've already got the, the Anna Bright thumbnail with the, uh, with the old Reggie Miller choking thing. Oh, bro. We don't know what the fuck you're talking about. I don't even know what the fuck you're talking about. I know what I'm talking about. You don't, you don't, that's, that's like at least an iconic meme. Um, you know, the Reggie Miller. I know what you're talking about. Yeah. That happened before they were born. I mean, yeah, it was, it happened before I was born too. No, I did. When did that happen? Didn't Halliburton do it? Yeah. He did the same thing. Yeah. Yeah. I know ball. He does. Yeah. There you go. I don't know.

[00:13:30] I don't know shit. You don't watch any pro sports. You guys watch pro sports. Uh, not a lot. Maybe tennis, like big tournaments, finals. What are you watching your free time? Uh, that's a dangerous question. No, I'm kidding. Uh, I watch a lot of gambling videos and like, I actually watch a lot of Pickleball. Who's your pick, do you, uh, you like watch like, like poker? Uh, what kind of gambling videos are you watching? I watch slots.

[00:14:01] I watch, I watch, I watch, I watch, I watch, I watch blackjack, Baccarat, like real, I watch a lot of gambling. Yeah. Well then I understand. I can understand watching blackjack or poker or Baccarat, but slots, dude, you would, that shit makes me sweat bro. You would not know. We won, we won a big slot. Dude. You don't know the feeling. Yeah. The feeling of a slot hitting is unbelievable. We hit the grand jack. We gotta get a gambling sponsor on this shit. Dude. I've been, well, I'm not 21 yet, but dude, if I, like we were actually talking about it.

[00:14:31] The time we get a gambling sponsor, we're quitting Pickleball. That's, that's, that's, we're done. We're done. We're done. If you had like a pickleball tournament on a cruise ship and where you can gamble when you're 18, are you sure? I was there. Dude. I was fucking telling him. I was telling him, let's go on a cruise ship. Cruise ship. That's 18 over there. It's perfect. Zane has a company that's like luxury pickleball. Luxury pickleball travel. We'll have one on a cruise ship. Yeah. Dre was just on it. And Tanner, right? Yeah. He was telling me about it. There you go.

[00:15:01] So, so if there was a, if there was a no limit Hold'em poker tournament on tour, Gabe, are you winning? No, I'm not winning. I'm, I'm going to land firsthand. Who's the best? Uh, we've played with a couple. Yeah. We've played with Andre, Ben. Oh, Adam Stone. Well, Adam Stone is really good. He actually rinsed us. Yeah. He was, he was a pro poker player. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I would lose first one. Guaranteed.

[00:15:31] So you're only there for like big hands of blackjack and sliders. You're watching slots on. I want the sweat, dude. I'm there for like, you know, I'm, I'm there for quick adrenaline. All right. So how do you get the sweat? Like what, what are you sweating over on a, on a roulette table or something like that? Like, what are you putting down when I, well, this is the only game I don't play is roulette. Really? But anything else, it's just a big sweat. Like, why not roulette? I like Bachrad better. Okay. I think roulette is just, just dumb.

[00:15:59] Like the, you spin the wheel and you know, red or black, everybody does that. And then there's like green and then there's like, yeah, I don't know. It's, there's too much math to it, but I like blackjack. Blackjack. What do you mean? Yeah. And I bust every single time. So you're not good at gambling. You could say, no, actually I'm not. I'm bad. I wouldn't say I'm bad. I'm actually a pretty even. I haven't lost money. I'm actually might be up like a few hundred bucks. I'm a tight gambler. So.

[00:16:28] So what makes you, what makes you sweat? Like, all right, you're going into somewhere. Tell them the sweat and the Bachrad. Like, are you familiar with like high limit Bachrad? Not particularly. Yeah. It's going to be hard to explain. This guy's. This was supposed to be a pickable podcast. This is going to be a gambling podcast. This is even better. This is even better. Basically, Bachrad, you get closest to nine or nine, nine wins. So the sweat is like the dealer will give you the cards, right? Say I'm player. It's banker player. I'll bet on player.

[00:16:57] The bank, the banker keeps the cards. He gives me player cards. And you can kind of like fold the cards and look like, what do you have? And then you're like, let me see what you have. He flips an eight in a 10, right? That's eight. So eight and nine are natural that they win. So if I get like a nine and a 10, I beat that. And that's the sweat, like kind of like folding the cards and like, I thought you were saying Sweat like, oh, like I'm getting my heartbeat going. Well, yeah. We, yeah. Okay. As she gets it going, trust. Trust. Trust. Trust. That'll get you going.

[00:17:24] But like, what type of, like, what are you throwing down on a hand in something like that? We usually do a hundred, $100 a hand. Um, that'd get me sweating. Yeah. Yeah. How many hands do you play? Um, till I bust or till I, we, I don't know. Nah. I mean, yeah, it depends on the night. Yeah. It depends on the night. But anyways, Baccarat is my favorite game. And then I like, I love slots. Um, I think the bonuses, bonuses are a lot of fun. You can't get over watching slots. I'm not going to do that.

[00:17:53] I just can't get over that. The sweat about getting, there's like symbols you look for, right? And if you get it, you get in this, in this like bonus where like you get, when so much money and like, you know, it's hard to explain, but the grand jackpot and we, we made a $8,500. Like no one hits that. Wow. And Gabe and I hit that. That's like percentage wise, that's like 0.00 something. So I think that's, that's what got us going. We went nuts. I would imagine. Yeah. That was crazy.

[00:18:23] Okay. Well, Nico, you got any pickleball questions too? Uh, yes. Pickleball questions. All right. So speaking of, we're talking about background here. So Gabe's background is professional gambling. Hey, Hayden, everybody knows that, you know, you, you don't have a tennis background, right? Your background is baseball. Yeah. Like how good at baseball were you? Were you as good at baseball as Annalie was at soccer? I don't know if Annalie was good. I feel like nobody knows how good Annalie was.

[00:18:53] That's what I'm saying. I see people say stuff online and I'm sure she was good at soccer, but people are like, you know, assuming she was like some amazing soccer player. She was like 11 when that happened. Like, how do you know? Yeah. So I mean, like, like I quit baseball. What was your baseball duper? We'll put it that way. I mean, I, I, I couldn't even tell you if, uh, I don't know, but I, I made a couple of teams. So like there's a team, um, all over the U S that the there's like mid Atlantic West coast, whatever. So there's a West coast team.

[00:19:20] There's six players from California make six players from Arizona. It was, I think it was 12 you 11 you or something like that. I made that team. So I was one of the six from California. Oh dang. So at the time I was really good, but developing into like getting better into baseball, like high school college. Like I would, I don't know if I would have made, I would have made a high school team, but like I wasn't as big. So I was really good on defense, but hitting wise I would get on base, but I was never like a, you know, big hitter. So like strikes on super small. Yeah. That's where I kind of, yeah. Very high on percentage.

[00:19:50] That's where, that's where I kind of lacked the size and baseball is very political. You know how it goes. It's like daddy ball and shit. But I was good. I was a good baseball player. I don't think I saw myself playing college, but I don't think you get enough credit. Like, I think we should like promote you. Like we'll tell Dave Fleming, like, Hey, can you kind of like, you know, fluff him up here with the baseball? Cause I was like, Oh, Anna Lee was going to play pro soccer on the U S national team. And then Hayden played baseball. That's what I hear. And I'm just like, all right, let's, let's, let's, you know. Yeah.

[00:20:19] Pump me up. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Nobody knows. Uh, so did any of the baseball skills translate to pickleball? Is that, is that like, just like a myth? Like do sports actually translate to pickleball? I would assume the hand eye coordination for sure. And then, uh, the lateral movements, like I played shortstop in second base. So kind of moving side to side for that ball or whatever. I would a hundred percent say it kind of translates. Okay. It's gotta be like reaction time too. Reaction time. Yeah. Yeah. You're reacting every single time you're up at the plate or fielding a ball and stuff like that. Yeah.

[00:20:48] And tracking a ball that's going, you know, 80 miles per hour at you. Right. Right. Right. Right. Although I do think it's interesting, like we have less reaction time than MLB fastballs on some of these. You watch a point of yourself and you'll hit like three shots in a point, which means, or sorry, in a second. That's insane. Which means like you're hitting them every third of a second, which is actually faster than a ball gets to home plate in certain cases. It's unreal. It keeps getting faster too.

[00:21:15] Like some of these like hands battles, like in Utah, we had some hands battles like in the final that were like unbelievable. It's like, I don't even know how I'm getting the ball back. Like it's crazy. The reaction times that some of us have, it's wild. Do you think that tops out at some point? Yeah, I would, I would assume so. Right. I don't know. Like, but it's always gotten faster. Like pickleball has always gotten faster for as long as I've been playing, which has been 13 years. So I just think people adapt like a couple of years ago. We don't have a lifetime.

[00:21:45] We didn't have this poppy paddles. So I think it's just people are adapting us to the fast game. Yeah. If the paddles get harder. Yeah. We're going to have to, it's going to get faster for sure. Yeah. But obviously the players are hitting the ball harder too. Like you're putting more behind it, like all that stuff. So it'll be interesting to see if it gets, keeps getting faster and more and what point does it top out? It has to at some point, unless there is more, you know, a paddle advances or ball advances or something or another. Yeah.

[00:22:13] But yeah, the, the level on championship Sunday right now is, is just really, really impressive to, to watch. Oh yeah, absolutely. Zane, you, you, you have been famously roasted online for speaking of level on championship Sunday saying that Hayden is the world's only 8.0. I got you bro. I love this place. This place is insane. I love that shit. Do you, how much have you watched that video? I have doubled, tripled, quadrupled down on that.

[00:22:41] I say when Hayden is playing his best at the top of your ceiling, you are the best player in the world. I get roasted by that because as soon as I said that you went and lost a bunch of matches. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But was that like right after Mesa, right? Um, or. It was, it was, I mean, I actually started, I think I started saying it before you and I and Anna beat Ben and Anna Lee for that, uh, for that, uh, was that Mesa? Mesa. You won that one. Yeah.

[00:23:10] I just think that your ceiling is, is the highest, right? When you're firing on all cylinders, you take over the court more than anybody else. I would say Gabe is in that conversation as well. However, you being on the right side, it's a little bit more difficult to take over the, the entire court. For sure. So I think you have a little bit more player impact in your, in your spot, which I think Ben, obviously nobody would argue. He brings his a level every single time. Yeah. Right. You sometimes don't. Yeah. Right. Sure. Yeah.

[00:23:39] So I don't know. I appreciate that though. Do you think that you are firing at your best, the best player in the world? I mean, that's like, that's crazy. You should ask someone else, right? All right. I'll ask Gabe. He's the best player in the world when they're playing at, at a hundred percent of their maximum capability. You're putting me on the spot, but I, I mean, truthfully, I think, you know, Hayden, there could be an argument that Hayden's there. I agree with everything you said. I think, uh, Hayden plays different game styles and Ben does.

[00:24:09] So it's tough to, uh, you know, make the comparison, uh, what's the word comparison, but yeah, I mean, I think that, you know, Hayden puts more pressure out of anyone in the game. So if he's feeling it, you know, he could, you know, like I hate seeing this guy on the championship championship court. So, uh, yeah, I mean, there's an argument. Yeah. I'm taking it. I'm taking that as a W. I'm taking it to you. Gabe Tardio said, let's go. Thank you, Gabe.

[00:24:36] Gabe said, there's a, all I heard was Gabe said that Hayden's better than Ben. So, but, uh, no, I, I, I think you're right. And I was, it's just crazy. Cause like, as soon as he made that comment, like literally, I don't think people understand how to like listen and comprehend because everybody's like, Ben's the best player in the world. Like we didn't fucking say that he's not the best player in the world. We just said Hayden at his peak is the highest, right? So the highest peak. And I think Hayden also, you play like more high variance pickleball. So like when you're on it, there's more risk. There's more risk and there's more reward. Right.

[00:25:05] Ben plays a more boring style. I think a more safe style. Right. And doesn't make any mistakes. Right. Like he makes almost no mistakes. Right. You make mistakes, but it's kind of like in the budget. Right. And like, you're going to beat Ben and Annalie when you, when you're just on. Like, I think, I don't know. Like when, when you like see different, like let's say, when you guys were like rolling in Mesa versus the next tournament where I think they were there. Where is it? Like Utah. Utah. When they beat you. Their role.

[00:25:34] Ben was a, I've never, Ben, that was the best I've seen Ben. That first game was the best I've ever seen Ben play. And for me and pickleball, like it was playing him. Like he was unreal. Like I wasn't even playing that bad, but like after that first game, it was just like, holy shit. Like he can play really well. Like that was the best I've seen him play. It was, it was wild. Wow. So in men's dubs, what does it take to dethrone Ben and Gabe?

[00:26:02] I mean, it's a really good team, but like, it's really tough. I think about this shit every night cause I'm, I'm taking Elsa Gabe too much, you know? Uh, but no, uh, it's tough, you know, you, you have to have to have a consistency just like they do. Um, and you kind of have to have, I think the biggest thing is the hands battles. Um, I think, I don't know what the stats are. I'm sure someone has the stats, but I'm sure they win 70% of the hands battles in the matches. And I think that's a huge thing.

[00:26:29] Like when you start winning a few of those 50 fifties, it's changes the momentum. And, uh, but I mean, when you, when you're going against Gabe and he's just crazy, I mean, it's really tough to put the ball away against them. Um, yeah, I was, I was sort of surprised with the partnership switch up this year, right? Obviously last year you played, um, with fed. I wasn't surprised that she switched it up, but I was somewhat surprised that she didn't

[00:26:54] go with like an, an Andre and actually put fed and, uh, CJ together that also leaves, um, JW and Christian, which are all three of those kind of put the players on some of the sides that they like, it would move you back to the right side. But I don't know. What was the thought process of going with Christian as opposed to any of the other players in like the big four team? Obviously with Ben and Gabe being, you know, kind of off limits.

[00:27:23] Uh, yeah, I mean, I just, uh, the first thing is Christian's intensity. I think I need that. Um, I think that helps elevate my level. Uh, one thing was I, I think I play my best and I think I'm the most dangerous on the left. Um, and then, yeah, I mean, I, I, there wasn't a ton of thought. Like, honestly, I was just like, Hey, like Christian actually asked me and I was like, you know what? Yeah. Like let's try it. Fed and I weren't doing as well.

[00:27:49] Um, it was kind of like a weird situation cause Fed and I won worlds right when I started to play the left, but I had already committed to Christian. And so it was kind of like, I don't, you know, I'll try out with Christian. We'll see how it goes. And then, uh, you know, the force comes to worse, you know, we just switched back and it's the same partnerships, you know? Fair enough. So it wasn't like deep in thought, I guess. As you know, you can ditch your partner immediately after picking them. Right, Gabe?

[00:28:20] Oh, hey. How did that go? I just want to ask you, like, I think, you know, Ben picks up the phone and says, I want to play with you. You basically have to tell everybody else to go fuck off. Right? Like that's just how it works. Right. Same thing with Anna Lee. Right. But, um, like how'd that go? Like, you know, you, you were playing with Andre and you guys were winning and then you'd make the switch and you're like, all right, I'm going to play with J-Dub. And then did you guys even play a tournament? One? We played two tournaments. Yeah. Okay. And then Ben calls and is like, I need you.

[00:28:49] And you're like, oh, J-Dub, sorry. It wasn't like that. We're part of the Florida Five or whatever. And, uh... I think there was a lot going on. Well, I think there were a lot of things to consider. I think, you know, obviously like I was training with J-Dub and I was good friends with J-Dub and we've been kind of planning on playing together like for a while. And, um, uh, yeah, well, I think the main thing, um, because I went with Ben, one, because he's the best player of, you know. Yeah. All time. All time.

[00:29:19] Second, I needed to think about like myself first and like, you know, you know, just playing with Ben, it's going to benefit me so much more than not on winning, um, but like sponsorships, you know, recognition, stuff like that. And then also like at that time, which I think it was the main thing for me at the time, I was, I was actually planning on playing, going to India and play because I didn't have a PPA contract. Okay.

[00:29:48] My PPA contract they offered me like it was, it was really low and I don't, I don't think I was going to play PPA. And the fact that I had the opportunity to play with Ben, I think that made PPA, you know, double, triple the offer. Yeah. So I think, yeah. I mean, there was a lot more than just Ben is the best player in the world. I'm going to play with him. Yeah. There was a lot more things to consider, but I, but yeah, I think the main thing it was, I do think that me playing with Ben is what really got me to stay with PPA. Okay. Yeah.

[00:30:18] Wow. And John saved. We're glad you're here. Yeah. Was there no conversation of you guys teaming up? Cause you guys were already on the shock together and playing together at that point. Right. Yeah. Cause that was beginning of 2024. Yeah. We, we, we, yeah, we also, we, we talked a lot about playing together. I think, you know, I would love to play with him. We actually playing Australia together. Um, you playing this Australia together, this Australia, and neither of you guys called

[00:30:43] me for a partner, but yeah, I don't know. I think, uh, I think me and Ben said we're going to play the rest of the year. And then I told Hayden, like anything that Ben doesn't play, we'll play together. And we just ended up playing pretty much the whole year. So there was no room to, you know, get tournaments in. Sure. We're fired up for Australia though. Yeah. I'm excited. The one, are you going to go right to Hong Kong afterwards? Yeah, we are. Nice. Yeah. So, all right.

[00:31:12] Let's say there is a shock reunion. What team beats the, the Gabe and Hayden combo? Who does Ben pick up if, if not Gabe? Right? Like we, we, we talked about this quite a bit actually. Yeah. What do we come to see? Jay? Right? Um, yeah. I mean, it's hard to, hard to know what Ben would have picked. I don't, I think, you know, Fed, Christian and TJ are very close on level. So I don't know, I don't know who he would have picked. I think it was between Fed and CJ. Yeah.

[00:31:41] If you ask me. Interesting. I'd, I'd put you as big favorites in that. Yeah? I think, yeah. I mean, I think we definitely have a chance to win. Um. Humble. Yeah. I mean, I don't know. It's hard to ask. Danny Pounce was in here before. He's like, yep, I'm going to beat Adelie. Exactly. Wow. Yeah. I mean, I don't know. I don't know. I mean, obviously Ben and whoever Ben plays with, it will be really, really tough. You know, I don't think we would win every single time we played him. Sure, yeah. So, I don't know.

[00:32:10] I think the best team, surprisingly, I was surprised how good Ben and Andre were in the two tournaments that they played together. Like, cause Andre, they both play the same side pretty much exclusively. Andre played the right for two tournaments and they just smoked everybody. Did they? I think so. They won two goals. I think they played two tournaments together. They played one, I think. Or maybe one. Yeah. They played Cape Coral. Yeah. I think they just killed. Maybe I'm wrong. I don't know. I don't remember. I don't remember. They had tight matches, but I think they killed Fed and Christian in the finals.

[00:32:40] That's what it was. That's right. So, yeah, I was surprised. And I was surprised how well it worked out. So, I don't know. Yeah. And I think Andre would figure out how to play the right if he needed to. Yeah. I would probably put that as your biggest comp if that was the case. Cause I think Andre is just a, I think he's just a crazy competitor. Yeah. I think he's just a grinder. I think he would figure out the right side if he needed to. 100%. For sure. Yeah. Well, I'm hoping that Hayden, your ascent continues.

[00:33:07] Cause I made the prediction that next year Gabe would drop Ben. So, I need that to be true. Yeah, that was my prediction. I said, I said, uh, Gabe and Anna Lee are both going to drop Ben Johns and Anna Lee is going to, and they're both going to pick you. Well, if I, if I want to play Gabe, I'm going to have to start beating him. You know? Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So we'll, we'll, we'll see. Yeah. Well. All right. So, Hayden, I'm going to tell a little story cause I'm going to ask about where you get your swag from.

[00:33:34] And I'll tell you my first experience ever seeing you play in pickleball. Okay. All right. It was, I think this is Newport beach, maybe like 2021. Newport beach. Okay. That, um, or maybe 2022. I don't know. And everybody's huddled up around this court. And I played with Warnick that tournament. I'm pretty sure. And so he was like, dude, you got to check this kid out. He's hilarious. And I'm like, all right. So me and Jeff are watching your match and you're playing against Jeannie Araquina.

[00:34:02] And I didn't know either of you guys before this and like all of your SoCal buddies were like watching you and me and Jeff were watching you. I think Jesse was over there somewhere or another. Yeah. And I don't know what happens, but you and Jeannie just start mouthing off at each other so bad. I'm like, dude, this is like a Andy Milonakis thing. Like, oh, this title is like tidy kid is just like mouthing off to everybody. I think the ref said something stupid and you like went at her too for something.

[00:34:32] I was unhinged. You was unhinged. And I was absolutely loving it. So that was probably when you were 15 or 16, something like that. Like, yeah, yeah. Like, so you kind of always had just like a, I don't give a shit attitude. Like, honestly, I don't think so. Like, I mean, yeah, I guess from baseball. Yeah. Kind of. I had that confidence. I feel like a lot of the kids who play baseball are like, like have that kind of energy.

[00:34:59] But I think it really came out like after like hanging out with Jeff and Jeff, Jeff, like your shit into me. Yeah. I was pretty quiet. And then like, I hung out with Jeff for better or for worse. I'm not sure. Yeah. For better. Yeah. And yeah, I guess it just brought a lot out of me. And I think it's good. Like my personality now is like more outgoing and everything. But I think I've kind of always had it, but Jeff kind of brought it out. Brought it out in you. Yeah.

[00:35:28] So how do you, how do you like, how do you prevent yourself from going too far? Like, obviously you've launched a ball recently, which I loved. That's what I said. I think that that should be the new crash out meta. Yeah. Um, like, you know, you called Annalie a bitch a long time ago. Like, you know, there wasn't too long ago. At what point? It wasn't even. Has it been a year? Yeah. Not even one year. Oh, you know what? Actually my mom, my mom was like, this is crazy. I don't know if this is bad to say, but mom, my mom, the, I was with her actually.

[00:35:57] And she was like, this is the one year bitch gate or something like that. Like your bitch gate. That's right. Yeah. Anniversary. Yeah. So that, that was a year ago. Now that I remember that. Uh, so how do you, wasn't proud of my mom's not proud, but it's, it's, it's, it's a little funny now. Yeah. Obviously you and Annalie are, are like, it seems like close, like, and fine. We're good for sure. Yeah. That's my family. Franklin family. No, we just, we just hung out in Vietnam a bit. Yeah. I think everything's great. I think honestly, like it, it was a bit blown out of proportion. I don't know.

[00:36:26] I don't like, it was just like a big blow up, but I mean, she, you know, social media. Yeah. I think, I think she did, didn't do any favors by the way that she handled it. Oh, you know, I mean, what are you going to do? That's fine. Like if I get called the fucking bitch, I probably go fight you too. So yeah. Yeah. I didn't want to like dig up this old, I want to ask you like how you, how you maintain like kind of being yourself being like fiery, but then how do you avoid go like crossing the line too far. Yeah. I mean, I've, I've gone to both.

[00:36:55] I've, I've been there, the bitch I've been, then I've been to like the too chill where it's like, ah, I'm like, this is boring, you know? Um, and it, you know, it's, it's, it's been like three years now. I've kind of figured out that, you know, I prance around, act like, act like I'm him. And I, I try not to talk any, any shit anymore unless, uh, I'm really fired up, but you know, you're not talking shit anymore. What's going on? I don't know. I don't know. I feel like, I feel like I don't even play that good when I talk shit. It's more like when I'm like kind of cruising around, like being, being like just chill, you know?

[00:37:25] Like, you're asking me. Yeah. I think it's the opposite. I think when you talk shit, you play your best. Really? Yeah. When you're with your cocky kind of like mentality or like, don't give a fuck about anything. Maybe. I don't know. It's, I'm still, I'm still figuring it out. It's tough to kind of balance it out, but I, I don't want to be like portrayed as like an asshole. You know what I mean? Cause I'm not. Um, but that's kind of why I go back and forth for sure. And I don't think, I don't think anybody that knows you on the tour, like would, would say that.

[00:37:53] Like, I don't think you have any, I don't think you really have any haters on the tour. It's like the people online that are like, ah, this kid is, you know, such a little dick. Yeah. We get that all the time. That's like, if you, hopefully you don't go on Facebook ever, but it was basically like, that's the hard thing. It's like, you know, pickleball is a sport that a lot of people that are like 50, 60, 70, you know, participate in. And they have like a specific like expectation on like behavior and passion and it's all

[00:38:22] old school. And so like, you just see these groups all the time. It's like, as soon as you show any kind of personality, you, you launch that ball, you know, in that match and just everybody's just coming for your head. Right. It's just like, I mean, it's, I think it's, it's gotta be hard. Like in a sport that has a lot of people that are older, like I'm trying to figure out how to like, you know, be yourself, but also be one of the faces of the sport for people that are, you know, primarily 50 plus. Yeah. Like I usually try to rein it in, but like when, when I'd have stuff like that, like now,

[00:38:52] like after the Anna Lee thing, like nothing really phases me with the social media. Like I really don't give a fuck. Like, like after that, there was a lot, but you got bosses too, right? Like Franklin and, and any of your other partners or sponsors, we've got to probably like, couldn't have been stoked about that. Like about, about, you know, launching a ball or calling Anna Lee. Yeah. So the bitch. Yes, of course that's not good. But, uh, I've actually talked with like Franklin and, and, you know, they, they really like my personality and who I am on the court.

[00:39:21] You know, they, they really appreciate like the passion and I've been with Franklin for like my whole career basically. Um, and you know, they really respect me and how I am. So it's really good to kind of have Franklin back me, you know? Yeah. I gotcha. Yeah. Yeah. I've always thought it's a good idea. Cause like who is somebody who sold more tennis rackets than anybody? McEnroe and he was out there smashing them. Right. Like Kyrgios, you know, those guys are people that you love them or hate them. Like you know about them.

[00:39:48] And yeah, I think people, I'm very much more on, on your side of things of like, let people see who you are. That's much more entertaining than somebody who's buttoned up. And I, I catch shit for this because I say Federer bored the hell out of me watching him. Like obviously his game was incredible, but like, I want to see like a little bit of emotion. I was always more of a Djokovic fan. Cause like, you know, you're going to see the highs, the lows, all that stuff, but you generally

[00:40:16] know what the guy's thinking and you can kind of relate to that. Right. I couldn't relate to Federer at all. Like I couldn't just stay there stoic the entire time. So I didn't even watch tennis. So I have no idea. Yeah. Who is this guy? Yeah. I mean, I know of him. So, so Gabe, you're, you're a little bit more of the opposite, right? I don't think I've ever really seen you frustrated. Like I've seen, I've seen you like down. Right. But I don't think I've ever seen you mad. Like, have you ever gotten mad in a pickleball match?

[00:40:43] And like when you do, what's, what's like your go to, like, you know, Hayden launches the ball, you know, Zane throws a paddle, you know, Zane Ford is hitting it into the ground. What's your stress relief? Yeah. Well, I don't really have one. I think I'm pretty chill in the court. I think, uh, my mom would have, you know, you know, Latina's mom, Latina moms, like they would beat you. Yeah. She would, uh, yeah, she would be mad and get out the chancla. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:41:09] No, I think, uh, my mom is the reason why, you know, I keep myself, you know, chill and I don't do anything that Hayden does because yeah, my mom would, uh, would not like it. So I think, uh, you know, just how I, how I was, I was raised, you know, when I was young and, and just personalities. I was going to say Hayden was racist. No, no, it's a gayest point. Like when I, when I was a kid and like, I go to like my friend's house, like, you know,

[00:41:37] I grew up in a Latin household and I go to like my white friend's house. And then I'd hear my buddy talk to his mom. Like, Oh, she's going to hit him. She's going to hit him. And I was like, you can say that to her? What? And then I go home and I try it and it did not work out. I mean, I think it's also personality. I think I have a pretty chill personality. Yeah. You know, I don't get fired up about a lot of stuff. Yeah. You know, like if you see me, like, you know, win a championship, like even my first championship, I'm like, okay, I'll lift it up.

[00:42:05] I guess like, I don't, I don't, I don't have a lot of passion. If you want to see the passion, you got to go to the high limit box. Actually, I do have a lot of passion inside me. It's just, you know, I guess I'm not in the right sport. I don't know. Yeah. You're like the, uh, the Nikola Jokic of, of pickleball. Then like, Oh, I did my job. Now time to go to the horse. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You could say that.

[00:42:35] Yeah. I don't know. It's, I don't know. It's, it's weird. I don't feel much emotions. Like, yes, I get frustrated. I guess I get pumped or whatever, but it's just harder to get it out of me. I don't know. So I'm going to ask you. So speaking of like low, like lows, I, I, I remember like, well, I want to know what changed with you, Gabe. Like you were in premiere MLP and then I don't forget it was 2022 or something like you, you did not make a premiere MLP team. Right.

[00:43:05] Challenger, challenger, challenger. Like one of the only guys that get dropped from premiere to challenger. And I was like, Oh, the people figured it out. Gabe's not that good. Right. And then, uh, all of a sudden you just exploded. Like what it was, did anything change in that moment? Cause I feel like as soon as that happened, exploded. Um, yeah, I think, yeah. I mean, I think I felt that people doubted me. I think, you know, I think there's a lot of people that don't know what they're doing in, in pickle. I think people think they know a lot. And I think they don't know shit. What are we talking about here specifically?

[00:43:34] Just a lot of people. I don't know. Like many of the GMs, but I think like there's a lot of GMs are like completely clueless. Yeah. Even now I feel like, um, they don't know their stuff. There's obviously a lot of people in Facebook pages that, you know, just, just, yeah. They say dumb, dumb stuff. But yeah, I guess you could say that. I think, uh, you know, dropping from premier to challenger, um, kind of like fired me up a little bit and wanted me to show everyone, everyone that I was actually good enough.

[00:44:05] Um, cause I think what happened, it was like, people thought that I was only doing well because of J-Dub because I was with J-Dub at the time. So, uh, you know, J-Dub didn't pick me. No one else did. Okay. Yeah. Um, I don't know. Yeah. I think that fired me up a little bit. Kind of like, it was like, you had like a Colin Johns arc where if J-Dub didn't pick you, no one else would. Same like with Ben and Colin, but then Colin went, you know, now Colin's coaching PPA Trailblazers and you're, you know, Ben Johns' partner. But, you know, and to be fair, I think a lot of people died. I doubted you.

[00:44:34] And, and, you know, fun story is I still remember like, I've told him on the pod before, but my kind of first experience with you, you know, I saw you got dropped and then, you know, would make fun of you to my friends. Like, oh, this guy got dropped. And then my brother ended up qualifying for pro in the math, the masters in 2023, I think, and played you in the first round of mixed. And I was like, oh, if there's anybody that you're going to want to play, the first round is Gabe Tardio. And boy, was I wrong. So you were a hater, huh? I was a hater. Oh yeah. You were playing, I think you were playing with Mary Brasha.

[00:45:04] And it was like, you know, if he was playing in my opinion. You were one of those idiots I was just talking about. Yeah, I was. I was. Still is, to be honest. No, I learned, I learned in that match. You, you had, you know, changed me in the middle of that match. And I was just like, it's funny because he qualified. He only ever tried to qualify for pro once, makes it to the pro draw. And then like, we're like literally trying to come up with a game strategy. Like, all right, like this is, he's beatable, blah, blah, blah, right? No, wrong, right? You literally two on one them the entire time. Yeah.

[00:45:31] I have an entire like, you know, 20 minutes of game footage. And I don't even think I see Mary Brasha on the court the entire time. Like, you know, the strategy is hit to the weaker player, but you basically just stood in the middle and just big dick them the whole time. And so. Yeah. No, I think some of that has to do with personality. Like I'm not very flashy. So people, you know, I guess, don't think I'm, I'm good enough. I don't know. But I think, you know. Game is flashy. What are you talking about? That's true. There are bros everywhere. Personalities. I don't know.

[00:45:57] I feel like people that do dumb shit and yell, like, like, for example, the Christian or like same forward. Yeah. Like they get more attention and more recognition and stuff like that. Yeah. Yeah. Zane and Christian are a prime example of that. Yeah. Fair. So you guys are kind of known as, as players that, you know, when you play a rec game or practice or whatever, it's, it feels like it's goof off time a little bit. But, but how do you guys like, is that true? And then, yeah. First off, I'll ask like, is that, is that true?

[00:46:27] Are you guys, are you guys locked in and practice every time? Like I try to get locked in and it just doesn't come out. I don't know. I think it's tough. This is going to be very controversial, but I just think pickable for me, it's, I don't see it as, I do see it as a real sport, but for the longest time I thought pickable was like, it was a joke. I was just playing it because of the money the first couple of years, because I was good.

[00:46:56] People were telling me I was good, but I guess I didn't have the respect for the game for like until two years ago. So I think, yeah, I was just, I just fucked around pretty much every single practice and, and you know, the fact that I was playing pro fucking around kind of like made me think this, this was like a bullshit sport and stuff like that. Uh, I don't know where I'm going to this. I think I lost track. But yeah, we, we do fuck around in practice.

[00:47:24] Um, a lot, you know, I, I've been trying to get better, but yeah, I don't know. I think playing with Ben, like I, when I practice, I mainly play with Ben. Yeah. It's just, I don't do much. I don't know. I got bored. I got bored. I don't know. Yeah. Also that being said, I think one of the reasons why I got good is cause I fucked around a lot of practice. I was doing a lot of dumb shit. I was, yes, I was fucking around, but I was trying to figure it out stuff.

[00:47:49] Like I was, I was locked in strategy wise, not locked in plane wise. So I think just fucking around and doing a lot of dumb shit thing got me to figure it out, which, what were good spots, you know, what did this guy does well and stuff like that. So yes, we do fuck around. Yeah. I remember like when I used to play you in 2021 or 2022, I knew like he hit two dinks to you. You're going to do something stupid or miss one. Yeah.

[00:48:17] Like that is, that was the, the, you know, the book on Gabe, like three 2022. Yeah. Right. Like you were hitting strokes that everybody thought we're just going to break down and everybody was right at that point too. Right. You, you weren't somebody that was going to dink 10 times in a row. However, now some of that is your, obviously your biggest strength. And I think, you know, the way how wristy and everything you are on your, your dinks, anybody

[00:48:45] who was coaching pickleball like three years ago would have said like, this guy is just, he's not making it. Like, yeah, this is just, it's chopped. Yeah. Right. Right. But, um, I do think that there's an element of like play or goofing around that helps you. And I think is a big reason why you see younger kids coming in and doing really well is like

[00:49:10] they have kind of having fun, like fucking around, like trying stuff out and inventing basically new shots too, that no tennis player that has been like basically beaten out of you as a tennis player to like use your wrist or do any of this other stuff. Yeah. I think, yeah. Like I said, I think a big part of the reason because of my success is in my opinion, my thinking was always play your game style. Don't try to copy anyone, you know, figure your game first and then you can, you know, get more consistent.

[00:49:40] So that, that was my, my thought process. Um, when I was like playing and stuff, I wasn't taking it too much serious. I wanted to figure out what my game was, what was working. And then, you know, I got more consistent. I think that's like a kind of like, that would be like my recommendation to a lot of people these days. Right. Like there's, you know, this is a sport that was dominated by a bunch of old people that said, this is how you have to play. Right. We hit, we hit third shot drops and you know, we don't use risk, whatever.

[00:50:09] And now like you see the kids that are coming in, right? Like if you see like Tama, right. Or you see like Will McKinnon. Right. And like doing to your point, like, it seems like they're playing dumb shit pickleball and they just didn't learn from anybody that told them what not to do. And I feel like for the next like three to five years as pickleball is still not a soft sport, the more that kids experiment, like the better those people will actually be versus people that are trying to learn like a specific, you know, you know, maybe like, you know, I'm not going to, you know, no offense, Zane, for example, like Zane, let's just say Zane

[00:50:38] coaches somebody, right? Zane's going to teach them how he plays. Right. And maybe I would never do that. Maybe there's a kid. No, so Zane has his own pickleball school, which is fantastic. Right. But then I also think that there are like some of these kids that are just coming in doing whatever they want. Like, you know, you're choking up on the paddle or doing some stuff that people are just like not talking about trying weird stuff. And then like, for example, you know, you're playing with Will, you know, Will McKinney. I like to use him as an example because he's beat my ass repeatedly and like a bunch of money balls up until then.

[00:51:07] And then, you know, had some cool, cool shots against you guys. Right. You know, I think his come up game when he played against you and Ben didn't win, but you know, had like dink winners. Right. And you're like, oh, I don't I don't see this shit ever. Right. And so like, I don't know. I think like it just seems like for young kids right now, it's like you don't need to be in a pickleball mold. Do what you want. To your point, consistency will come. Sounds exactly like so. James and that, which always says play with the most powerful paddle. The control will come eventually. Learn how to learn how to hit hard.

[00:51:36] And then James got that shit. I've been saying that for forever. He fucked James. Do you think he listens to you? You know, and so I don't know. I feel like pickleball is like the opposite of a lot of sports where it's like go to the extreme and then eventually you can kind of like back down into consistent pickleball. Yeah, for sure. I mean, pickleball is like no one knows what's the right way to play pickleball. Pickle is a new sport. So I think in my opinion, my thought process always was, well, I'm not going to listen to anyone.

[00:52:02] This is like there's only 80 year olds playing like they don't they don't know shit. Yeah. Like I'm going to do what feels right, what feels good. And then I'm going to get more consistent. And then, you know, if it doesn't work out, like I'll follow whatever Ken says. You know what I mean? You got the famous quote where it's like, hey, you know, Gabe, what have you learned from Ben John? Nothing. Nothing. I got a lot of hate from that. He learned from me. I did not meant that. He learned from me. I did not say that. I did not say that. I did not say that.

[00:52:31] I don't think people realize how different the play styles is from playing to the left to the right. It's completely opposite. It's so much different. Yeah. The shot making is the opposite. It's crazy. Break that down real quick. Like for like the people listening or watching, like what do you mean when you say it down for the Facebook groups? Yeah. Yeah. Like everything is different. The spots you get attacked on, the spots you can attack, the dinks you need to cover, where you're hitting your drops.

[00:53:00] Everything is complete. It's almost like a complete different sport almost. Like it's insane. So yeah. It's just like, like for me, like when I'm on the right and someone hits a good drop to me, right? Where can I go to keep the ball away from the left side player, right? It's really tough to kind of keep that ball away, right? Opposed to the left. Like if someone hits a really good drop, like I can easily keep that ball away from- You've got a lot of court. There's a lot of court to work with. The person coming in is only looking to poach with their backhand. So I mean, that's kind of like what we're talking about.

[00:53:30] It's just completely opposite with shots and everything. Everything. Every aspect of the game. Are there any, are there any shots? I know you guys have like really built your own games and not like, you know, copied much of anybody, but are there any shots emerging now, especially maybe even after going to Asia that you're seeing that you're like, okay, that's pretty interesting. Like I need to work on something or another, like, like that. Like anybody on tour have something that you're like, oh, you know, that's interesting.

[00:54:01] Yeah. I mean, not for, not for me, honestly. My, my, my thing with, with my game right now is honestly like just bringing that, bringing a consistently high level is where I'm kind of working on. Yeah. No, I wouldn't say that there's like shots that I'm trying to learn, but going back to the other question. So I don't think we have our own game. I just don't think we copy one. So I don't copy like Ben John's whole game. If I like something from Ben, I think I copy his flick.

[00:54:31] If I like Tyson's drive, I'll copy his drive. Sure. Sure. Yeah. So it's kind of like adapting and seeing what you like and adding it to your game, but it's never trying to be someone. Yeah. Yeah. Of course. Right. That was, that was his question though. Did you, do you, do you, oh, that was the other question. The question is, is there a shot that you've seen from anybody on tour that you're like, I want that shot? Not really. I mean, I think scorpions are pretty cool and there's a lot of people coming from badminton or like ping pong that hold their grip differently. Yeah. And I think that makes them, makes them have faster hands or cooler shots.

[00:55:00] But I think if you're looking to consistency, I think the grip that we use, which is continental is the best one. You guys both are continental grip. Yeah. Yeah. All right. I'm still convinced tomahawks are coming to the game. It's just so, it's just like, I learned this from Ben actually when I got a bronze with Ben Johns, I'm kind of a big deal. Uh, but, uh, probably, probably the one, one of the only people with a bronze with Ben. The others have gold. That's actually true. It's harder to win a bronze medal with Ben than it is to win a gold medal.

[00:55:30] A hundred percent. Yeah. Uh, but so we were playing Utah. Maybe I shouldn't say this. Nevermind. You can or you can't. We can cut it out afterwards if you want. Say it, say it, say it. Okay. We were playing Utah and he was like basically telling me like with his grip, like since he's played Warnick, like he's never going to let a ball go because his hands are so good just like this. So he's like, if you're going to attack, go like full on. And you know, I kind of learned that about like with people who have like scorpions and have like good hands like that, like you just have to fucking go hard.

[00:55:56] Like, and no, I don't think that that's why I don't think tomahawks are like good. Yeah. I'm not saying like hold it that way. Right. I'm saying like, you've got a sitter and it's in your reach here or in your reach there. Like you switch to, you switch to a tomahawk, like very situational. It's hard to do though. Yeah. I'm convinced it's going to happen. I want you to see, I want to see you do it. I like it. Try it. Let's see it. I haven't done it as much as I don't play the left as much, but the biggest thing about the tomahawk is it increases your reach. Right.

[00:56:24] If you're, if your hand is, you know, let me, I'm grabbing a paddle. Props. I was about to give you a little bit. I'm not, oh, the old pro XR paddle. So like if your, if your hand, if your hand is gripped like this, right? I'm limited because my hand is in front of the paddle. But if I flip it over, I can get like four or five more inches of reach because my hand is behind the paddle. For sure. And so if nothing else, it's like on a ball that's really dropping pretty quickly. Like you can reach in.

[00:56:54] You get a crazy angle like that too. You get good angles. You get a little bit more pop, I find, but you're not somebody who struggles with the power. And I wanted to ask you about the actual technique of your flick. I saw somewhere online, somebody was saying like, do you actually flick out and stop, like try to snap it back? Um, like when you're hitting a backhand flick, are you going like, yeah. So like if it's high and like, I'm really trying to like go like, like if Gabe's in front of me and like, I just want to go like straight body. Yeah.

[00:57:23] Like it's like quick twitch. Like I'm not following through. It's like, boom, like just fucking punch it. Yeah. And like, but you are like sort of intentionally sort of like, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Quick. Because also too, like when I found out too, like when you're playing like Gabe and you hit, you think you hit a great shot and you kind of like are lazy with it and you're not ready for the next one. Like he sees, they're usually getting the ball back. So it's good to like kind of be quick back to like your body, you know?

[00:57:53] So almost no follow through. Just quick to it. Like that Gabe? Yeah. Yeah. That's good. You might actually do it better than Hayden actually. Damn, what? Oh, you've been working on the, I've been working on that. You've been working on, working on that wrist. It's working on the right. Wow. Very twitchy. He is. Yes. Oh, man. So speaking of shots. How else does the food get into his mouth? Jesus. I'd rather go there. That's gnarly. Oh no.

[00:58:23] That's crazy. Brutal. Hey, before you go, I wanted to ask you guys, are there shots that should be like credited to you? And like, so, you know, I asked if you emulate anybody else in certain shots, do you see shots that's now showing up because of you guys, right? I don't, it's not a shot, but I would say that I'm probably one of the first ones to choke up in a battle. Yeah. I think I've seen a lot of people choke up more.

[00:58:53] Um, I think Ben does it. I think Christian started doing it. Um, and I think there's just a lot of people that do it. I don't know if I was the first one, but I, I don't know. I didn't copy anyone. That's just what felt right. Um, but yeah, it's not really a shot. So I don't have a faculose for you, but can you help me on my paddle? See how much you, you choke up? Like where would you? I would go. Okay. This feels right. So you're not going, you're not going like table tennis, like all the way on the throw?

[00:59:22] No, cause you still want the reach, right? And you want your flex, your wrist to be flexible and move around. If you go like this, you're limited. Uh, you don't want to actually get a hold of this, right? Sure. Of the paddle. Yeah. Cause you still want to be able to rotate it. So basically like your, your index finger is like almost all the way up to the throat here. Almost. Like, yeah, not, not actually on the throat. No, you're not actually touching the face of the paddle. So what does this do?

[00:59:52] Like, so explain it to me like I'm five. Like, okay. So the reason why I started doing it is cause when I was, you know, starting, I used to do a lot of wall drills. Uh huh. And when I was doing a wall drills, my hands would be a lot faster. Just choking up. Yeah. You're a lot slower. So basically you're, you can get more spin on the ball and you're get faster hands cause. So you get more spin. I always assume that if you were for the weight. More spin cause you can, you can use more wrist. Cause the, the paddle makes you choking up.

[01:00:21] The paddle feels a lot lighter. Yeah. So that enables to, yeah, you can whip it more. You can be faster. Um, you can, yeah. Spin more. There we go. All right. I got to try. I've been trying, but it's just like so unnatural. Like it's one of those things where like, I just like have to commit like a whole month to doing it before it becomes like, you know, second nature. But yeah. No, I was going to say is that, yeah, I don't, I think it's, there's no reason for anyone

[01:00:49] to not do it cause I even feel like even when I choke up, there's still space for me to put two hands on it. So yeah. I don't know what issues are you having with choking up the paddle? Maybe you're choking up too much. I could be. It's not like it's a hard. It's just like, for example, let me see the paddle. So like when I first started playing, you know, like I used, you know, you used to hold the paddle with like a finger here, like, you know, you see like a bunch of, right. And then like, I had to spend like three weeks getting worse to put my, my hand here. Right.

[01:01:19] And so I'm just saying, like, I think for a lot of people and maybe why a lot of people don't choke up right now is that like just the difference between here and here, like it just feels a little unnatural. And so you have to like, kind of like beat it out of yourself, you know, for, that makes sense. The last thing I would say about choking up that it actually matters what paddle you use get fuckless. I'm kidding. Yeah. Cause you don't want to grip to be too long cause you're going to choke up about, I don't, you're always choking up the same amount.

[01:01:45] I don't know what's the difference, but you want to be like, like saying said, almost on the rubber thing. Okay. Up here. So if you have a grip that is too long, it actually hits your mobility. Oh, interesting. It's back to the bottom of your head. Yeah. If you see like what paddles I play with, I used to play with the pickle, which had short grip. Okay. And the fuckless, same thing. It's a little longer than pickle, but it's also, it's not, it's not long. Not, yeah. All right.

[01:02:14] So we've got Gabe with the choke up. Hayden, what about you? Any, what shot should be attributed to you or if any? Hmm. Full bag, obviously. That's what I put. I put, I put lasers to the head, but, uh, the full bag. That one. And I would say like the, the flick, like angle, like the put away, like if it's up here, like I hit that one in the kitchen and angle, I would say. And I, Ben started to do it. Everyone kind of started or the left side player started to do it. Maybe that.

[01:02:41] I feel like you were one of the first people to really kind of go like the, on the backhand flicks, like more of that, like tip forward around the outside of the ball sort of flick. Yeah. I don't think anybody did that or that I remember before you. No, the, everyone always like brushed it. Mine was more like a punch through. Yeah. With like side spin. And you lead with the, you lead with the paddle out here as you come through. Right. So you almost get like, you almost get left to right side spin. Right. When you do this.

[01:03:08] So what's the, what would you say is like the advantage of, of that shot? And that's not just on the putaways either. Like, yeah, I see you kind of like slice across it on the putaways. Yeah. But like, I see that shot all the time when you're just hitting your flick, even at the kitchen. Yeah. So it, it depends on the height and kind of where the ball is. Obviously I have like that Ben John slick to kind of like hit those different spots. Uh, but with that one, like if the ball's high enough, I think you can, um, that's, you're going to get the most power hitting the ball like that. Um, it's more like flat, but it still has enough spin to kind of get in.

[01:03:38] Um, and I think that's the difference between like Ben and I, like with, with the different flicks, like he hits more of like a brush and I hit more of like a kind of a punch flick, I would say. Yeah. Gotcha. Um, but yeah, ultimately it gets on you a little bit faster. Yeah. It helps. It helps get you a little, I mean, you have again, talking about contact point, if you're really just rolling up the back of the ball, right. You're, you're here. Right. But if you lead with the front edge of the paddle, you have a little bit more reach in there. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:04:06] Uh, I don't know who was telling me yesterday, but yeah, he was like, I don't know how you have so much reach. Maybe, maybe that, that helps a lot. So yeah. I mean, yeah, maybe that is. Cause obviously I think you, you reach more for your height than anybody. Right. Like, yeah. So I think I'm like five, 10 though. Five, five, five, 11 close. Getting there. Almost six foot. That's what the, that's what I put on the tinder and hinge.

[01:04:35] I'm six foot guys. Six foot in heels, brother. Yeah. Yeah. So in the last pickleball tournament, people always said, Hey Nico, why is your mouth blue? And I said, well, because you're screwed. Why are you screwed? Because I'm taking blue canantine from Troscriptions. All right. Which increases my focus, my energy, my, my mental agility. Like I feel limitless, right? Like I watched the movie with Bradley Cooper and I can never stop thinking about that every

[01:05:04] time I'm in my little four hour window with blue canantine. Troscriptions gives me the edge. And throughout the pickleball tournament, I feel like I can see dinks better. Uh, I feel focused. I have a game plan. I can stick to it and I don't get lost in the middle of the point. Uh, and what's nice is that sometimes I feel like I'm a little bit antsy, right? Like some tournaments, it's not about focus. Some tournaments are about nerves.

[01:05:32] And Troscription has a another product called Trocom. Now, if you see my mouth is a bit orange, you know, I am in Zen. I got complete focus. I got complete calm. Right. And so my heart's not beating out of my chest. I'm not going to be dinking shots into the net because I have a death grip on my paddle because I'm feeling calm. I'm feeling good. So I highly recommend if you want to check it out, if you want the calm or you want the

[01:06:02] focus, you got different options for you. Just make sure you go to Troscriptions.com slash dink and you'll get a discount on your order. All right. I don't know if we have to clap again, but I'll probably clap that shit. Clap that shit. All right. So speaking of clap that shit, first question we have here. It's on the podcast. Hayden, can you verify? Did you? Why are you asking that? That's crazy.

[01:06:33] It's on the sheet. It's on the sheet. Next question. Okay. All right. Deal. We won't. We won't put that. Leave it out. I like to keep it private. Yeah. Fair enough. All right. So, Gabe, you want me to ask you another question? Oh, hell no. Skip that one too. Skip that one too. All right. So, we got to clap again or what? Keep clapping. Let's start over. Restart.

[01:07:04] Those are fucking wild. Who asked that? Was that you? No. That was 100% Nico. Don't lie. Me? No. That was you fuckers. We're getting on the hinge. All right. This could be a good thumbnail. Yeah. Next question. Hell no. Hell no. Next question. Um, all right. What? That's the moment. Come on, baby. Oh my god. That's fucking crazy. That's what I like, baby. Come on.

[01:07:36] Hey. I'm trying to get, I'm trying to get every single bell. You didn't catch on to that. I did not get what you were talking about. I was there immediately. I was missing the, the subtle. I'm about whatever. I'm about whatever. I'm about whatever. I'm about whatever. All right. The shit that we say that can't end up on the podcast is way better. Yeah. Sure. All right, Nico. Clap us back in. All right. You're up, Zane. All right. So first off, you guys ever seen Zane's pros versus 5-0 videos? Yeah. I've seen a couple. Clips. Yeah.

[01:08:05] So basically he like does sessions where he like nerfs himself against 5-0s. And I, I've been dying to get on the pros versus 5-0 session. Like I, I. You gotta hit 5-0. I did hit. Okay. First off, Duper just had a cool update where like now you can see your career high. My career high is a 5-1. So one fuck off. Two. It is now like a 4-5, right? 4-5-6 or something like that. 4-5-9. I don't know. Anyway. It's all my partner's fault, not mine.

[01:08:32] But, um, so I guess my question is if we had to do some kind of pros versus 5-0s, I want, I'm right off the top of your head. Like what could we do to nerf Zane in a good pros versus 5-0s? What would be a good thing to do? To nerf me? All right. Yeah. So that I can win, right? I was thinking we play, like if Zane and I play skinny singles, and I want you to tell me who would win. We play skinny singles to 11. But if I bag Zane, he goes down to zero. Ooh, that's good. Can I beat Zane? That's interesting.

[01:09:02] And would that be not the best segment there is? I don't know. Zane's so skinny. Zane's fucking skinny. He's tough to hit. I don't think I ever get hit a lot though. I do feel like I get hit kind of a lot. Yeah. I think you would, I think you could beat him. I don't know. I don't know. I have no idea. What do you think Zane? I really don't know. Think I could hit you? No, I don't think. I don't know how good you are though. I don't think you'd be able to score points. You might be able to knock me down to zero a bunch, but I don't think you're going to score very many points. Right, I agree with that. I think I could score some points. Skinny singles? I think I could.

[01:09:31] I don't have to move too much. If we play straight up skinny singles instead of playing cross court. Make it happen. You could cross court. I could cross court. Make it happen. We're here right now, Zane. Lops play. Give him a wooden paddle, no? What's that? Give him a wooden paddle. Yeah, a wooden paddle. I think I beat you with a wooden paddle for sure. You think so? Yeah. Do you play Sacramento? I didn't play that tournament, no. The paddles I used on Sacramento last year, they were tough to play with. I got the... I did the same... I did... You did one. We did a wood paddle pros versus 5-0s and we won, I think, relatively easily.

[01:10:01] What about... Was it the same shape of a regular paddle? It was slightly different. It was like the ones you'd get... We would get in gym class. Right. But the ones at Sacramento, I did use... They looked like spoons. They were tiny. Yeah, they were... They were like thinner than the... Yeah. But I did use those and it was pretty similar to what we did in our video. Yeah, they were tiny. I think that would be a good idea. I don't know. What could we do if it was Zayn against you guys that we could nerf you guys so that Zayn could beat you? Like what... What do we have to do to you guys? Not much. We were playing together? Yeah, you guys are playing together against Zayn.

[01:10:31] Against me and Will McKinnon. Will McKinnon. What's the nerf gotta be? I don't know. Not much. Switch partner. I mean, I feel like regular practice, you got it. I don't know about that. Wild game is fucking... Game intensity. I don't know. You think we could beat you with wooden paddles? I don't know. I think we got you with wooden paddles. Yeah, thank you. I do think we got you with wooden paddles. I don't know. I don't know. I'm awful lefty, so... Yeah, I know. Right? Yeah.

[01:11:02] That was disrespectful. That was disrespectful. That was disrespectful. That was disrespectful. I was thinking the wooden paddles was disrespectful. No, but I'm saying like there's people like James that are like actually really good lefty. Like what is James? Like 5'5", 6". Ben's really good lefty as well. Ben is like insanely good. I heard James beat Greg Dow in skinny singles. Yeah, yeah. So that's what I'm saying. Yeah, I don't know what a good nerf would be. Hmm. No grid maybe? No grit? Like no grid? Yeah, like a pre-2020 paddle.

[01:11:32] Yeah. Oh, like a fiberglass paddle? Like the old Franklin? Yeah. I don't even know how much that'd be. That doesn't nerf you though. Yeah. Especially like... I was thinking more of the like C paddles. C paddles? Oh, like the old Onyx ones. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, like the Z5. Yeah. That'd be a tough one. Yeah. Cause that has... That one like not only doesn't have grit, but like the ball actually just like slides off of the paddle. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I feel like that'd be actually probably a pretty good match. Yeah. Like cause you guys' hands...

[01:12:02] And those things are pingy. You guys' hands would have to still be super good. You guys should win. I feel like we roll so much that we wouldn't... It would take away a lot of your offense. We wouldn't be able to get drops. But the hands would be like honestly probably not even any different. Yeah. Right? Like I don't think you guys lose much in the hands battles with those. I think it's just getting to the line and then creating offense from there. Yeah. Alright, so that would be it. I think that's a good... I think that would be a good nerf. Like you guys with Z5s versus like me and Will. Yeah. I got one more.

[01:12:32] Speaking of... We're gonna reverse the body bag one. I'm in on this one. I'm glutton for punishment. We're playing skinny singles. I'm playing against one of you two. But you only score points by body bagging me. I like this. We're playing against 11. Who wins? I feel like Hayden... Hayden against... They're on body bagging. I'm really bad, so... Yeah. I feel like I got you there. Yeah. I think Hayden wins that for sure. Are you coming to the kitchen line or are you staying back? Yeah, I'm coming to the kitchen line. I'm coming to the kitchen line and I'm taking the punishment.

[01:13:02] Yeah, if you stayed back like... Then I win, yeah. And you could make drops like you'd be... Well, that's a big if. But um... Yeah. Me, no. We're just playing... Even if we played it out from the net. We just start out at the kitchen. Yeah, I think I got you. Oh, God. I think Hayden is... I think we should run one of those at some point. Give me a helmet and then... You should probably be wearing one of those anyway. Oh, that's funny.

[01:13:33] Alright. You got anything else, A? Guess my duper? Guess my duper. Let's do guess my duper here. Alright, here we go. Alright, we're doing guess my duper here. Guy. Top of the screen here. Zen, you gotta do commentary. No, that was a disaster. Good drop. Ooh. Okay, that didn't actually look very athletic or good. Looks like what I would do. Ooh, that's a good cross. I still don't like whatever that thing was in the middle of his body.

[01:14:04] Alright, let's see. Paddle down. Oh, God. Jeez, that was ugly. Okay, he's fast. I would say like 5'2". 5'3". I haven't seen much dinking. Yeah. Neither have I. I'm going 5'2". Let's see. Paddle's down. I mean, he's not doing it. I like how she's not letting him take that. That shows she doesn't have confidence in him. I mean, all he has to do is he's hitting those balls up. I don't know.

[01:14:35] I haven't seen him hit a back and dink. Dink once. I haven't seen him win a point. Has he been winning points? This is rough. Okay. There's a backhand. Ooh. Still hasn't been. Is that your tomahawk? That was a tomahawk. Keeping your pants, man. Okay. Hold on. We gotta get some. I think 5'2". I would say 5'4". Okay. We're 5'3". Do we not know? Yeah, we do. Alright, let's see if I can find you. What's your guess, Nico?

[01:15:04] I'm gonna say 5'1", 9". You got specific with me. Yeah. I said 5'2". Oh, you gotta sign in. I gotta sign in? Sign in, bro. I gotta change that. Log in. Alright. What's your password, my boy? That's a great question. Dooper123. I hope it wasn't that. That's Valus. That's my Instagram password. What? What the? What? Okay, that's me. Save.

[01:15:34] Oh, that's you. Oh, okay. Look at this profile picture. Hey, look at this profile picture. You're in 3'9 singles? Damn, boy, you sexy. That's right. Yeah, it doesn't show your all-time high. But I did get silver in 5'0 at Sacramento. So, okay, let's see if I can now go back to this thing again. Did everybody else get stabbed? Is that why? 5'4". Dude, shit, Gabe. He's almost a 5'5". I feel like we did this guy already, too. Bryce Larson? Is that the same guy? I kinda feel like that game's familiar. Gabe was on. What did Gabe say?

[01:16:04] 5'4". Oh, jeez. Nice. Alright, well, Bryce- I'm sure 5'1". Yeah, I guess. I was thinking singles. But, alright, there we go. Bryce Larson. Do I get a prize? What does he get? Do I get it? What prize do you want to give him? Do I get one of the- Do I get one of the- We are in Atlanta, so we'll see what we can do. Alright, Bryce Larson, congratulations.

[01:16:33] Literally, I think this is the second time we've guessed your duper. I think we got lower this time, so, poor guy. Alright. Alright, Zane. Done, guess my duper. Any parting questions? Do you guys have any questions for us? Any questions for Zane? No, I want to hear about the journey with Connor Derrickson. Like, in all seriousness. Like, how's that going? Oh! So, the Niko, the lefty reset. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. No, so it's good. So, he came up with-

[01:17:00] Okay, so one, first off, he said something that I think changed my life, which is, he said, don't be afraid to go hungry. Or, go to sleep hungry. The kitchen is only ten feet away. I was like, you're right. So, but- Damn. Yeah, exactly. He sent it to everybody, but I was thinking about it. So, yeah. Yeah, so we've been doing this like lefty reset thing for 60 days. And I reached out to Connor because I was just like, you are like the face of fitness of pickleball, right?

[01:17:27] Like, I was like, so I think, you know, if anybody knows anybody that's doing stuff there, it's Connor. You know, that pickleball trainer. Is it that pickleball trainer? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And so he said, yeah, he joined. So, Connor provided like a ton of nutrition, sleep, supplementation, workout stuff, which was awesome. Gabe, I can send it to you too. Please, I need it. I don't think I've seen you do ladders or whatnot. No, I need it. I need the fitness. I just saw one from you, Hayden, which was good.

[01:17:55] But no, we got like 500 people as part of like this challenge. That's sick. Yeah. And so we've had like very little drop off, which is really cool. Like each week we have to do a check in, right? And if you check in, you're entered in for like a price. So we had some like shoes, pals, whatnot. So there's incentive. But the cool thing is like we're a month in and we've maybe lost like 20% of the 500 people. So which is huge because usually you probably lose like 80% of the people in a couple of weeks. Yeah.

[01:18:25] And so he sent out these videos. He's been super supportive. And what was cool is like in the journey, like what you get to see is like a ton of people make a bunch of like mistakes, but like they don't give up. And that was like the thing that also like Connor was talking about is like, hey, like if you fuck up, like that's fine. And then just figure it out. Right. Like go back and do something else again. Like there's like the analogy of like, hey, if you got a flat tire. Right.

[01:18:53] The first thing you do is not go to the other three tires and then pop them. Right. Like you just go fix the one tire. So like if you make a mistake, don't just go completely crash your entire shit and like get back and do the right thing. So like I've dropped some weight. A ton of people have like we have like some buddies like on Twitter, Jake Elvarez, like drop like he's in it. He was the number one leader after week one. Nice. And he and he's bummed because he had already dropped like 30 pounds before a challenge. So he's trying to drop a bunch.

[01:19:19] But like he was going from like, I don't know, two thirty to like his goal is now like one sixty before MLP, which is crazy. Right. Got to get the MLP body. Yeah. OK. Yeah. So it's hard. Like for me, I'm thirty nine. Right. And so like I don't have the same metabolism of like eat pizza and play pickleball and like actually be good. Like, you know, I immediately goes like straight to my hips. Straight to the love handles. Yeah, exactly. So, no, it's good. The pickleball community is like undefeated in terms of like being able to like rally.

[01:19:50] And so my my hopes is that I also get to like continually work more with like Connor like like selfishly. I was like, man, if I reach out to this guy and he helps, maybe he'll help me, too. And then he's been like super supportive. So what's a great guy? Yeah. What's it been like for you? Like, you know, I mean, I'm like super on and off like every six months. I'll be on for two months. Yeah. And if that, I mean, you can ask Connor, but I don't know what the longest time I've worked with him. But Connor really helps me a lot.

[01:20:17] I think he's a really good trainer, but I'm I'm too on and off. I can't. I can't. Yeah. That's my problem, too. That's the hardest thing is like staying consistent. Exactly. Yeah. I know Gabe was on that kick for a little and now he's like, oh, yeah. No, it's I think it's the toughest part about like actually getting into like fit or whatever is our schedule. Yeah. Too many tournaments. Like I feel like we haven't had like anything more than two weeks off.

[01:20:46] And, you know, I was and then a bunch of I was in my fitness journey a couple of months. Yeah. The starting of the year I was actually I gained like, I don't know, like five, six pounds. Yeah. And then I just lost it all. I got sick. I lost it all. And then like, it's just. Minnesota. Yeah, Minnesota. I got sick. I lost it all. And then I just stopped. Stop working out. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I got a good question. Shout out to my son who he does track. Right. And so he's he just started to track me. He's in sixth grade.

[01:21:16] So I want you guys. When was the last time you guys ran a mile? Like just running. Okay. Yeah. You guys ever like do you have a freshman year? Yeah. Okay. I was going to say. It's like crazy because like so I was watching him and he's like, hey, he called me. He said, hey, Nico, I just beat like my mile time. I'm like, oh, cool. What is it? Right. And like I run like an eight minute mile, you know, whatever, maybe nine minutes. You're an eight minute mile. Yeah, you shut the fuck up. That's fucking good. I've done it before. I've done it before. Right.

[01:21:43] So I actually I ran a half marathon like, you know, a couple couple of years ago, whatever. But he's so he's not like me. Right. He's like, oh, 525. I'm like, you're in sixth grade and you're on a 525 mile. That is insane. Insane. Right. Very fast. I cannot get him to like pick up a pickleball paddle to save his life. And this is like, I think that's something that's like pickleball needs to figure out eventually is like making it cool for other people that are athletes. So like what I see a lot of times is like pickleball picks up people that are like almost like leftovers from other sports.

[01:22:11] But like and I'm hoping that eventually like more and more athletes come and pick up pickleball. But like, do you guys foresee like a time when you need to be peak athlete to be good at pickleball? Or can you like, you know, I'm not saying that you guys are not peak athletes, but I'm also saying that like, Gabe, you're not like training like Novak Djokovic. I don't think anyone is peak athlete other than maybe Christian, maybe Fed. Yeah. Um, yeah. Do you think that's going to change? Like, do you think you'll eventually need to be that person to be good at pickleball?

[01:22:41] Yeah. I mean, I think it helps. I think it doesn't help that much. So people are not gonna like, I mean, yeah, I think pickleball, you can be 190 pounds. I think you can be really good. Um, I got a little bit of a C. Yeah. You don't necessarily need to be tall. Uh, I think pickleball is a very like, what's the word? Like you don't need to be super fast.

[01:23:08] Like I don't consider myself super fast, super strong. Um, yeah, it's just like basketball. Like you need to be at least six, four or six, five. Now you need to be athletic to play basketball. Well, and the height though, too. Like you don't need a certain body type to play pickleball. I feel like obviously you can't be like, so obviously it's best. If it's not beneficial, I don't think it's, it'll make a huge difference. Yeah. So technique is always going to beat physicality. Essentially. You could just take a freak athlete and implant them into pickleball. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:23:35] We talked about this on the, when we were talking to Danny earlier and where it's just like, is like, like table tennis, for example, is just like, seems to me like all skill. Right. And tennis tennis is like a ton of athleticism plus skill. Right. And like pickleball, I feel like, is it more table tennis or is it more tennis tennis, you know, like where athleticism matters or not. And I think in doubles, like I, I would actually say it's slightly more towards table tennis, pickleball is. And that's, which is why I feel like a lot of people say that, you know, Asia is going

[01:24:04] to overtake and like dominate pickleball in like 10 years because they can like drill, you know, the skill forever. Yeah. No, I would, I would disagree on that. I think that the two main things about pickleball is one is talent. And then the second man is actually like being smart in the court. Okay. I think, yeah, like a lot, I know a lot of people, you know, make the reference of like chess, but I actually think I don't consider myself very smart, but I think I studied the game enough.

[01:24:32] So that like, you know, I actually know what's going on and when to attack and which spot to attack and stuff like that. Wait, do you really think it's like a chess match out there? For sure. Yeah. Like kind of the game theory around like, okay, I've attacked to their forehand twice. Now I got to switch it up to the backhand, but they think I'm going to switch it up to the backhand. Is it that type of stuff? Or are you talking more just like the patterns and just a lot of pattern recognition? Everything, everything is, you got to know what shot he does well. Where does he go with that shot?

[01:24:59] And you kind of like, you already, you know, planning on covering certain stuff. Yeah. I think it's just reading what they, people do good, reading what people struggle with and, and just, yeah. It's crazy too. Like, like for me, I don't know about Gabe, but like, I'm thinking like when someone's hitting a certain shot, like there's a thought of like, what grip does he hold? And like where he can actually take this ball from this height. You know what I mean? So like with Ben, like, or, or Gabe, like if, if let's just say Ben's backhand, if Ben's

[01:25:29] backhand, like it's, it's super low. Right. But like, you can kind of see him like, like, I don't know. That's a bad example. Looking to flick. Right. Let me think of a better example. Like, um, I'm trying to think. I'm trying to think. I get, I just think, I just think. I'm trying to think. Hold on. Okay. Yeah. I'm thinking. I'm pretty quiet. No, I think I just, it's tough. Now you, you talk, I'm going to think of an example. The thing is that I know what he's trying to say.

[01:25:57] It's, it's tough to put in words, but people don't realize how much strategy and thought and actually like knowledge. I think that's what makes the difference. Cause again, like you don't need to be a free athlete. You don't need to be like, you can, you can be really good. You can be consistent, but what makes a difference between, you know, us and the top 30 or, you know, anyone, it's really the understanding of the game and, and reading their shots. That's what I think Caden was trying to say.

[01:26:27] Like, I think we have good idea on when is someone's going to flick or when is he going to take it out of the air, stuff like that. And also like, yeah, where they can actually realistically make that. Right. So the pattern recognition, right? That's the biggest thing. And I think that's, that's not even something that you can necessarily articulate all the time. What exactly you're looking at. And it's certainly not something that you're thinking about in real time. It's like, okay, you just see it and your, your brain just knows. It happens.

[01:26:55] Like, you know, I think, you know, good example is somebody like Dennis Rodman, who most people wouldn't accuse of being that smart, but like the guy was a basketball genius in terms of like getting boards. Yeah. You need me to explain that one? Hayden. Getting boards? Yeah. Okay. You didn't know the other reference I had earlier. I got that one. And then we were talking about tennis. I think, you know, you said you were not a big fan of Federer, but I think that's what made Federer stand out.

[01:27:23] I think his tennis IQ was better than anyone else's. What do you guys, I think you guys are two of the, the smartest players for sure. Like just in terms of like, maybe not even necessarily court IQ, but just in terms of like the pattern recognition and whatnot. Yeah. Do you think that comes from playing as a younger kid? Cause I've got a theory, another theory that pickleball is going to end up like professional

[01:27:51] gaming, professional gaming players peak at like 17 years old because that's when your neuro plasticity, like your ability to recognize patterns and learn new things starts to go downwards. That's also where your reaction time starts to go downwards. And you know, Annalia has been dominant for forever. And now we have, you know, young guys like you coming in and dominating at the top of the game.

[01:28:17] So like, do you think that doubles and pickleball is going to be similar where it'll be dominated by, you know, guys in their early twenties, as opposed to something like basketball where it's dominated by people in their peak physical form in the late twenties? Yeah. I would agree with you. I don't know about 17, but definitely like, I think around the days. Yeah. Early twenties. Early twenties. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Because like, like we were talking about, you don't need the, I mean, look at me, look

[01:28:46] at me, look at Tama. Like you, you don't need to be like athletic or you do in a sense, but like, I don't need to look like Christian to like play pickleball. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. That's inspiring. You got, you got a chance. You need to get smarter. That's basically what we're saying. That's basically what we're saying. People are like, you gotta get skinny or no, you just gotta get smarter. You're fat and dumb. You're just catching strays. Oh my God. Yeah.

[01:29:16] So for the lefty challenge, do the fat jokes from me help or no? Yeah. They motivate me so much. It's worked my whole life, you know? Negative reinforcement. I'm somebody who actually does like learn from like, I love it. Like that, like negative reinforcement be like that shot sucked. Fucking fix it. Yeah. So like. Hasn't worked, but. I'm gonna ask him your question. Is Unc Zane chopped? Oh no. Is Zane a chopped Unc? Is what I would. Well.

[01:29:46] That's what I learned from my kids. No, they're like, yeah. Anyway. No. So I got, so speaking of like the court IQ, just one question I have is like, where, let's just say I'm like 5-0 player. Where do you, where do you go to learn this shit? You know what I mean? Like I feel like there's just videos everywhere that talk about like how to hit a shot. But like, how do you go and actually learn court IQ? Is there a way to do it or you just gotta be smart? It's just. You gotta get high level games and move to Florida? Yeah. High level games and experience is the way I learned it.

[01:30:15] Yeah, I think it's experience and actually watching a lot of film. I think not to hate on the like small reels where they teach you a shot. I think they were helpful, but I think seeing a bigger picture, like seeing matches. Yeah. And actually instead of like seeing matches and oh, that's a good shot. More like why? And like what was the three balls before that, that he hit the flick or whatever. Stuff like that, that I, you know, when I was just starting, I was watching a ton of film. Yeah. And, and stuff like that.

[01:30:44] And then putting that to, you know, experience and playing yourself and trying to like mimic and stuff. I think that's what. And, and playing a lot of rec too. So like if you're playing with the same three guys over and over for fucking two years, you're not going to get better. Like I know for me and probably Gabe, we've played so many different people in pickleball. Like we've seen like pretty much everything, like someone can hit every shot they can hit. And I think like players kind of limit themselves when they have this group and it's a good group, but like they play each other for, you know, their whole pickleball career.

[01:31:14] And it's like, you're not, you're not seeing any variation. And I think that kind of can like drastically slow down your improvement of the game. That's also why like people in Florida are like the best players because they play against 10 different game styles. Yeah. Like people in Charlotte, they only have like four people that just drill and play against each other every week. At this point, you have to move to Florida if you want to be a top 10 player. Are there any top 10 players outside of Florida? It's not a hat, but it definitely helps. It helps.

[01:31:44] But the thing is like, there's so many players now. It's like, if you're not, if, I mean, this is how it is. I'm going to tell how it is. If you're not in that like top 10 or like in that group, like you're, no one's probably going to play with you. Honestly, you might get one of us to drill like drills. Yeah. Once a week, but it's tough now. It's very over inflated already. Yeah. So basically you guys have like your top 10 group that always plays. And then like, if you're like number 30, you're playing with, you're not playing with you. Well, here's the thing.

[01:32:13] I think there's so many people in Florida that even the top 30s can get a good group. Like there's insane amount of like APP players. There's like, I think the, the five O's are the highest five O's. Never. Yeah. So like, so I guess my thoughts like, let's just say I'm like Spencer Lanier or like Aiden Shank, right? Like somebody that's like good APP player lives in Florida. Do they have a chance to get like, how are they going to get like, are they going to do they, you guys play with these guys or like at that point that they APP, I don't even touch them.

[01:32:44] No, it's not like that. I don't, to start off, I don't practice much. But shit. Like how many, how many times have we practiced? I don't practice with him a lot lately. I've been, I've been, I've ever since I moved to Florida, I've taken wreck and everything serious. And I think I've seen like a, a huge jump in my game. I mean, I like, I'm playing good ball right now. Gabe's a fucking freak. He's just talented. Yeah. Uh, but I don't know. What was the question? I forgot. He asked the question. Oh, I was just like saying.

[01:33:10] I was just saying like, it seems like it's hard. Like you guys have like the group of the top 10 that will play to get, you know, you and George and Jada, but then like, I'm a six three, you know, let's just say I'm Aiden or Spencer. Right. Like at that point, am I, I basically gotta get it lucky and get in with a group. Yeah. At that point, I think it comes to like personality and how much someone likes you. Right. That's what I found when I was like, Hey, look, I'm a four six, but I, I, I'm kind of cool online. So they're like, okay, I'll play with you.

[01:33:41] I have a, no, I, exactly. I'm going to play a APP Sacramento pro mixed with like a five, five female. Dooper player, which I feel like it's like pretty good. Right. You know, it's obviously not good for you guys, but like that's legit. Right. I'm like a four six. Like this would never happen, but I got personality. Right. Or good looks or whatever, you know, yeah, yeah. Personality. Yeah. To your point on like IQ and stuff, I think it's like being curious about how a point ends,

[01:34:08] like kind of performing an autopsy on the point and figuring out like what happened at the end of it. And I'm like super certain that there's no YouTube video that can help you with that. They can maybe point out certain things to look for, but it's something like, I think, yeah, I think you would have to have like someone at the top of the game, like sitting there watching with you and like telling like, this is why this happened. This is why this happened type of a thing. You got to see it through your own eyes too. Like even if I, that's true. Even if I told somebody something like it's not real in their mind until they've seen it themselves.

[01:34:38] I feel like, yeah, it depends on how they learn too. Like if you're a visual learner or like hands on and yeah. Yeah. It all depends, I guess. Yeah. All right. Well I'm running out of storage on the, on the thing over there. So I think that's the, the sad end to the pickle pod. Unless you had like, I got like five minutes left. No, I'm good. All right. I think Hayden's mom's calling him. So she's called me. I don't know what's going on. Oh, my Tinder's going on. No, I'm just kidding. Lots of matches here.

[01:35:08] What are you guys doing today? You guys got a free night. What are you guys doing? We're going to go to the pens, depends. Is Shepard here or no? Shepard, Shepard could get us in some interesting places. Yeah. Yeah. But it's only Monday. So you got plenty of time to recover for. True that. Thursday, Friday. Yeah. Actually, let me ask you that. Like at what point are you like, all right, I got to lock in on the way. All weekend. Okay. It's like a game for a championship Sunday.

[01:35:39] I'm the only person to ask. Yeah. I mean, we might need to cut this out because my mom might watch this, but we actually went out a couple Saturdays. I've never played better. I beat Ben and Annalia. Every time. Every time we went out and it was a good night. He played his best. Insane. That's crazy. Worlds. Worlds. We went out Saturday. That was your birthday, right? Uh, no. No? Wait. Okay.

[01:36:08] Worlds, he beat me and Ben after we went out until like 3 a.m. or whatever. With no sleep. Vegas, same thing. And then Mesa, exact same thing. And I was, I was on. Those are like the times that we went out on like before the finals or whatever. He plays his best when we went out. After Mesa was like the most impressive. Yeah. Cause like I was dreading it. I was like, damn, I really want to lock in for this one. And you know, they kind of dragged me out. I was like, all right, fuck it. So I, you know, I just went balls to the walls.

[01:36:35] And, uh, yeah, I think just a good night talking to, talking to girls, having a good time with your friends. Like that was something for me. I don't know. Okay. There we go. That's the key. I mean, Gabe, Gabe too. I mean, the guy wins a men's final every time. Well, Gabe, probably you should, you should keep Hayden at home then. That's true. That's true. I'm gonna hang out with Zane. Zane in bed by nine o'clock. This is true. I went to bed at 8.30 last night. That's a Wednesday. Yeah. No, I don't care enough. Just right. I don't care. Dude, you guys are the most opposite. Like Zane's schedule is I wake up every morning.

[01:37:04] So I will text Zane and this is how it works. Like I text Zane at, I don't know, 1230 in the afternoon. And I don't get a response until Zane wakes up the next morning. And no matter where it's like, it's usually on the East Coast. So I get a message every morning at two o'clock and Zane's like woken up at five just to answer his message. It's insane. Yeah. Every, like a clock. Five o'clock he wakes up. Eight o'clock he goes to bed. That's just so desperate. He's always texting me. I text him back right away. Yeah. That's funny.

[01:37:33] But, wow. All right. So we'll see you guys out Saturdays, Saturday night, Friday night. Yeah. We'll see. We'll lock in. It's like game, game four, game five. Right. You gotta be, you know, back against the wall. Ready. All right. Cool. All right. Well, that's pickle pod. Sweet. Are we clapping again or?