Zane: "This Is My Favorite Pickleball Moment Ever"

[00:00:00] I want Despicable Me. Ooh. Despicable Me is not a Disney movie. It's not? It's not. It's just DreamWorks. Isn't that Disney? No, I was just at Universal and they had a Despicable Me section. Yeah, Universal is not Disney. Even I knew that! Oh my God. That's fantastic. This is not my, I'm not an expert in this field. You know what? Oh, f*** it.

[00:00:30] Give me a Bugs Life. Oh, that's a great one. And Nico, if you say that's not Disney, we're going to let it slide. Yeah. All right, guys. Welcome back to The PicklePod. We've got special guest and friend of the pod, Zoe Weil coming on. And first, we're going to take a little bit of a victory lap. Zoe came and talked some smack in Chicago. And so this week, obviously, we're going to chat about everything that happened in MLP Orlando.

[00:00:57] But we're also going to talk about one of my favorite MLP moments of all time. I've won a couple championships, had a lot of cool stuff happen. And I think LC coming in and clinching a dream breaker for us to save our season has got to be my favorite MLP moment of all time. But there's so much else that happened this week as well in Orlando.

[00:01:18] We had sold out crowds, the goats facing off against each other in mixed doubles, which was the best mixed doubles match in MLP until like 24 hours later when the shock and the fives played each other in just an absolutely insane match with Hayden celebration and a league going at it with them. We had playoff implications. We had all types of stuff this week. So guys, it's gonna be an unbelievable episode.

[00:01:43] If you are a fan of the podcast, do us a favor, like the video, subscribe so you don't miss everything else. Nico and I are going to be doing a deep dive into the whole playoff situation as well in another episode. And also, if you like us, if you like me, if you like Nico, if you like Zoe, join the Pro Pickleball Talk Discord. It was popping off this weekend while we were over in Orlando. Really fun community to chat about all things Pro Pickleball in real time. So Nico, where should we start?

[00:02:13] I mean, I think first off, to set the stage, what an event. I don't even know if you could undersell it or whatnot. Or MLP Orlando was probably the best MLP event I've ever been a part of or witnessed. I wasn't even a part of it. I was just watching from Pickleball TV or Fox Sports 2 or wherever. Sold out in person at Disney World. You got people going to Disneyland. Jake Gelvar going on roller coasters. You got 13-year-olds smacking Dream Breakers. It was fantastic.

[00:02:40] But I think we have to start with your guys' match. Like, Zoe, I'm glad you're on and I'm excited to get your perspective. This has always kind of been a dream of mine, but it always involves Christian Alshon, where we would get a heartbreaking loss of his and then immediately get him on the pod and enjoy his tears. Everybody wants to see that guy lose. Nobody wants to see you lose. To be quite honest, nobody. But I think maybe the one person in all of MLP that people might root for over you, 13-year-old

[00:03:10] Elsie Hendershot. So guys, why don't you guys, you two were living it. Let's start. Should we start with your match? Do you guys want to start Dream Breaker or you want to walk us through the first couple of matches, saying the comeback and then the Dream Breaker? You on the bench. Let's do it all. First of all, Nico, I would like to say thank you for realizing that my emotional regulation is different than Christian Alshon's. It's quite the compliment. I'm very flattered. But yeah, let's get into all of it.

[00:03:37] I think, like you said, amazing match. I think it deserves to be spoken about in entirety. Kudos to you. You were very cool afterwards the entire time. Even watched our next match. And yeah, I think it says a lot about you. You handled the situation really well. I feel like even a decent part of you was pretty happy for us and Elsie in that moment. And I certainly noticed that too.

[00:04:07] I wouldn't say in that moment, but I mean, outside looking in, you can't deny what a moment for her young career, super talented. We'll obviously talk more about that. And the Slice, I would say, are an easy MLP team to root for. You know, you got your gaggle of kids. You got Uncle AJ out there drinking his gallon of water. Yeah, I mean, if it wasn't going to be us, I was glad it was you. And yeah, I mean, what a confidence booster for her, for Elsie to be able to do that. But yeah, definitely.

[00:04:37] I don't think, I'm not really a crash out. I'm more of like a, I think I just like got numb. I was like, God, like, just go to the player's lounge and don't let anybody get a clip of you. Again, different than Christian Alshon, you know, I've learned. Yeah, well, you'll get more airtime if you crash out. But yeah, you handled it really well. Thank you, I appreciate that. So going into that match, we had some opportunities early in the week.

[00:05:01] So even just going into the week, there were basically six teams, seven teams alive, if you can call the Hogs and the Phoenix Flames alive at any point this season. I guess they were technically, but realistically, they weren't competitors. It was the Squeeze, Miami, the Black Bears, Chicago, and Las Vegas were all fighting for two total playoff spots. We somewhat got the short end of the stick because our group was pretty brutal.

[00:05:31] It was super brutal. It was the Fives. It was the Mad Drops. It was the Royals. It was Chicago, California, and then the Sacrificial Hogs. On the flip side, the other three that were looking to get in all kind of could take turns beating up on the Phoenix Flames and beating up on each other. And so they were kind of guaranteed some points. So it was a little bit unfortunate for us.

[00:05:56] I also do really think that in your current form, the Black Bears are definitely a top 10 team. So I think it's bad luck. But going into this, going into our match in particular, we had to win in order to keep the season alive. We lost. We were out. Yeah. Was doing a ton of preparation, trying to figure out how to beat Sarah Dennehy and Zoe Wile.

[00:06:23] Well, I watched your Chicago match against our ladies three times. We probably spent an hour prepping for that match in particular, and it didn't matter. You guys got out. We did a little bit better. What was it? 11-5 or 11-6? Yeah. You guys, you were better this time. What were you prepping, Dan? What was the game plan? So, I mean, as I watched that, I was like, and I texted you this. I texted Tice this. I texted a few people.

[00:06:50] I love you two as a team because your styles are so complementary because you play such a big right. You seem slightly less comfortable taking the flick out of the middle from the right. So that was a spot we were trying to target. But your only weakness, if there is one, is close to Sarah's forehand out of the air. So I would say maybe a dead dink to the middle might do well against you. But anything to the wings is really, really difficult because you've got Sarah's two-handed

[00:07:19] backhand off the bounce. And then you've also got your forehand out of the air, which you take unbelievably. You have more reach from the right side than anyone in the women's game in pro pickleball. So we did a lot of planning around that, and it didn't obviously work. But maybe it worked, but not well enough. You played the long game, Zane. So yeah, you guys obviously got out 2-0 after women's.

[00:07:49] And honestly, I kind of thought we were cooked at that point. I thought that John and I absolutely had to win to have really any shot in this one. Yeah, I mean, your mixed doubles came out. I honestly would say I think Elsie was most impressive in that mixed doubles. She played fantastic. Just so aggressive with her dinks. I think she sped the ball up at Dylan like four or five times, like five different spots. I think it worked almost every time.

[00:08:15] The match point of that, of our women's match actually, I can't remember if it was a forehand or a backhand that Elsie hit, but she pulled a ball at me and it was like two feet wide. I was like a pretty ambitious shot selection for being down, you know, match point. Right. She comes back. She does the same thing. Mixed doubles, match point up. I thought no chance this ball's landing in. Like it was like an Annalise beat up. Like you leave it and you're like, wait, it was a backhand.

[00:08:40] So we're both on the right side, backhand, wing of the court, came to the right of my body and still went like six inches in. And I was like, wait, no freaking way that ball just landed in. I was like, that's like a crazy shot selection. Like crazy to go back to it after already missing it in like a pretty big point. Yeah. I mean, yeah, they were fantastic. AJ didn't miss a ball. Did a great job. Dylan and I actually like went upstairs to warm up for the Dream Breaker after you guys got up 6-0 in that second mix. And like, so we're kind of, and we were like, oh, we can't go back now because our Sauron

[00:09:10] probably were bringing it back. So we were like kind of watching up from the practice courts and like the points were insane. I was like, what is going on? Like Looch like could not miss. Like everything that came at him, he was just like resetting, like softest hands ever. Like we're just like freaking out up there. Yeah. And then Dream Breaker just kind of comes down to like balls really. Yeah. Comes down to nuts. So yeah, it was a crazy back and forth. Dude, 14-14 we're at and you and Elsie come up.

[00:09:39] I think you went 3-1 the first time. You go 4-0, 18-14. Once again, I'm like, we're cooked. Elsie comes over on the way over to the bench. I'm like, it's okay. Like she's tearing up, like very upset. I saved match points. Jamie saves match points. She goes out there again, saves a match point. You had a nice little shank volley, I think. Yeah, I miss hit the crap out of that thing. Yeah. Wow.

[00:10:07] But she played, I mean, she earned three points in a row. And this is crazy because like less than five minutes before she was crying on the bench. That does not make me feel good, Zane. You tell me that. I'm sorry. It's the truth. She was like... No, I mean, she played well. I think I had a look at a pass, match point up maybe. I went line. I probably should have, could have gone cross. Obviously hindsight's 20-20. And then I missed an approach, which is crazy.

[00:10:36] I never miss my backhand long. I don't hit it that hard. They usually land like two inches past the kitchen. So that was, that was super tough for me. And then, yeah, I think she had a really good serve match point. Just like ripped it. And then, yeah, came in the net. And I absolutely buried that volley, by the way, too. I was like, oh, like I had a backhand, I think, to her backhand. I was like, it wasn't that bad. And she just hammered that thing. But I was like, oh, okay. So I'm matching it over. But yeah, I mean, huge guts from her. Like super resilient. Like, I mean, I think I tweeted something in Chicago.

[00:11:04] I think it was after I saw AJ and her beat maybe Roscoe and Zoe Wong. I just feel like it's always like, oh, Elsie is going to get overwhelmed. Elsie is, you know, she's not going to be able to handle it this time. Like, I mean, even in our pre-match, like, strategy talks, it was like, oh, like, let's just drive the ball at Elsie and see what happens. And I was like, guys, like, that's probably not going to work. But like, I guess we can try. Like, she's kind of proved time and time again. Like, she's got what it takes. Like, she has the tenacity. Like, I love her attitude on court. I think I texted you that a couple weeks ago as well.

[00:11:34] Like, fiery, like, wants it really bad. Super positive as well. But yeah, she just always figures out a way to, you know, make yourself get up for the occasion. So that's something you can't teach. And you're lucky to have her on your team. So. Yeah, no, I mean, we, yeah, look, I see it up close in person. I continue to underestimate her even. And I think I'm more bullish on Elsie Hendershot than anybody. But I'm like, you know, I had shared some of those same things. Like, like, yeah, you think she might get overwhelmed, like overpowered and mixed a little bit.

[00:12:02] Like, we gave her that shot. And every time we do, like, she shows up for it. So, yeah, excited to have her. Xena, I kind of want to get your honest take here. So, like, to set the stage here for everybody who doesn't actually understand or follow all the nuts and bolts of MLP. Zoe is like, there's a tweet out from last tournament. So he's 25 and six in Dream Breakers over the last couple of Dream Breakers.

[00:12:28] Basically, that's that's better than Annalie Waters has been in Dream Breakers over the course of the season. So basically the best Dream Breaker person, you know, on fire and a 13 year old coming in after the second rotation. I don't think it was particularly close for. Right. Like, it was like even Zoe would, like, toss up kind of like almost like overheads and and Elsie couldn't, like, put power down on them. There was a weird we had a weird point. I gave her like an overhead and then I like almost fell over. And then I ended up hitting like a passing shot.

[00:12:58] And I just thought I was like, oh, no, she can't score a point. Literally, as I'm watching, you know, and we did this we did the sports movie draft last week. Rocky was my first pick. People reminded me Rocky four is the best Rocky. And you reminded me of like Yvonne Drago. Like, if she dies, she dies. Poor Elsie Hendershot. You're basically just going to crush her. Right. And and so then we get to like twenty three, twenty two or whatever. And I think Jamie might have had match point on her paddle and she doesn't make it.

[00:13:28] So it's tied going into the next rotation. To me, I thought Jamie has to make this point to win the match or else you guys are completely toast. But Zane, I want to know what was going through your head when it got to whatever it was a twenty three, twenty three, twenty like Elsie's coming in for the last four points. Are you seriously like fuck? Like, oh, like, you know, if you can give me the answer of what that's like. I was like, fuck, like five different times in that. Oh, yeah.

[00:13:58] And sorry to make you relive all of this. But yeah, no. But I mean, the biggest thing is like she had her her tears on the bench a couple of minutes later and she like turns to me like I'm not fully convinced Elsie still knows how the dream breaker works. She's like, how many more points before I go in? I'm like, you got one more. And she's like, I'm ready. I'm like, no way. She's like, well, they didn't put a point on the scoreboard. So I was counting multiples of four, maybe.

[00:14:28] She asked me that a couple different times. She's like, how many more till I go in? I'm like, one more, two more. Like it's funny. She's locked in on the actual game. But since she goes like, I'm ready. I'm like, okay, well, let's see it. And obviously gets down, wins the next three. But yeah, I think the thing that's, and there's going to be tons of Elsie talks for probably a long time to come.

[00:14:53] The thing that has impressed me the most about her, and I'm convinced just that you absolutely cannot teach, is wanting the ball at 22-22. Like, I mean, how many people even on tour would you say, Zoe, like actually actively want to be in that situation? There's probably some that like, convinced themselves. But like, I think there's less. I was in that, but I was kind of like, I mean, Sarah's closed out. Actually, it's weird.

[00:15:21] Sarah and I have closed out, I think, almost every Dreambreaker we've played this season. Whether it's been like a resounding win, or it's been like actually super close. Was secretly hoping that that would happen again. She also had a match point. I think, yeah, Jamie had one, and then Sarah also had one in the same four points. And so it was like a little bit like, ah, like, I really wish we had won. But like, somehow I have to get up to like play these points again. Like, you know, I'm the fourth girl, or the second girl in the rotation. Like, I'm not supposed to play three times. Like, I played two times. I did well. I did really well my first two.

[00:15:51] And then, yeah, you got to go play again. You're an eight point player. I'm an eight. I'm four at a time. But like, as the sample size stacks up, it's just, it's not in my favor anymore. So I would say, yeah, like, did I want the ball? Yeah, I wanted the ball. Like, was it a tough, like, tough to get myself there mentally? Yes. But I would say, yeah, way less than half of the tour would be like, yeah, put me in. Like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna freaking do this. Like, it's easier to watch your teammate be great than it is to be great yourself.

[00:16:20] And it also hurts less when you lose. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Well, I mean, like, I'm always, you want your teammate to win. You want your teammates to like close it out. But like, yeah, that's different from like, I want this opportunity. Like, I want to still be able to like fight for this. Like, obviously, she's cheering for Jamie to finish that. She's not cheering for Jamie to like lose and then want to come in and be the savior. But like, when, like, when she does it, like, I don't know, I feel like the people that want

[00:16:47] the ball in that moment are Anna Lee, Anna Bright, Ben, Hayden. Like, there's not many people that are that really want the ball. And I think that's something that you just you don't teach. So, yeah, I agree. Wow. So we probably talk LCL day, but I do want to continue asking a little bit about this magical Chicago slice run. It doesn't end there. You still have to win another match.

[00:17:15] You play the Miami Pickleball Club and or that match and for this match, Zane, I want to I want to ask you. So, so first off, I think there's been some some talk on Twitter or KOTC or wherever about like players not setting the lineups because it's a bad look, right? Like it should be a GM or whatnot. And Zane, you're like coach, GM, part time player, depending on whether or not you have a wedding to go to.

[00:17:40] Um, and so my question is, you mentioned you, you, you watch tape. All right. I think that's clear for a couple of reasons. One, you got Zoe's last name right. So you probably heard it enough times to finally get it right on the spot. Congratulations. Two, you had to listen to her postgame presser when she said the slice might be better without Zane. So the question is one. I did not say that. I didn't say that. I asked. I asked if the slice were better without Zane.

[00:18:10] Oh, that's right. She asked semantics, semantics, very different. That's a, that's a, that's a very different. I would never, I would never insinuate that the slice might be better without Zane. I would ask. No, she would ask. Are they better? I wanted to ask in a different, differently worded. I texted it to Zane, but, but he, yeah, I wanted to ask if, if Zane was the Travis Redmire of, of the Chicago slice, but. So. I mean, close, I suppose.

[00:18:37] But, um, yeah, I actually love that. We texted like immediately afterwards. I think it's hilarious. I think most people knew, uh, that you and I are, are close and obviously like joking and I love the shit talk. Um, so yeah, no, that was, that was great. I didn't get any. Zane, Zane's like, yeah, guys don't come after Zoe for coming, coming after me. I texted him. I was like, that's funny. You think that people are going to give me shit for giving you shit. People don't. Nobody. Nobody can't. People don't understand what a joke is. That's also true.

[00:19:08] Uh, speaking of jokes, Zane. Um, so, uh, uh, so anyway, so we just talked about how a 13 year old wants the ball. Do you not want the ball? What went through your head as you basically, you took yourself out of the game in mixed? Um, how hard is it to make that decision? What went through that decision? Uh, and obviously it worked out. Yeah. I'd been playing with Emma a little bit, uh, for the first few, few matches.

[00:19:36] And, you know, we had kind of a brutal schedule. We played Declan and Tina. We played Annalie and Noe, and then we played Ben and Jade. And then after all that, like confidence kind of shot, um, lost one to the, lost one to the Hogs who also played well. So just the confidence was, was down from, uh, from Emma and I am like, we got to make a change. And so first thing did was I took me out.

[00:20:02] Um, and then after that, that means AJ's in, we kind of chatted and all figured out like, yeah, we're going to try and give Elsie the shot to, uh, to step up as well. And, and she did, um, it's been awesome, but tough. Cause Emma came in so late in the season. So we haven't had a tremendous amount of reps, whether that's Emma, AJ, Emma, me, me, Elsie, AJ, Elsie, right? Like we, we haven't had too much time to mess with, mess around with that.

[00:20:29] And so we figured, all right, potentially last match of the season, let's just mess around with the lineup a little bit. Um, but yeah, I mean, AJ stepped up big time. He was ready the entire time. Like he was, um, he was getting practice. He was staying sharp. And, uh, obviously Elsie in the doubles lineup, women's doubles lineup was, was doing the same. So I don't know. I just thought that that was, uh, what was best for the team. And, uh, I think I was, I was right.

[00:20:54] And so unlike other, unlike other player GMs, player coach GM, whatever, uh, I think it's pretty clear. I'm going to do what I think is best for the team before, uh, before I do what's best for Zane. Cause that's the, I don't know. I mean, I am a team guy. Like I, that's why I love MLP so much. Like whatever it takes to get the team win, I think is most important. And I enjoy that. So. Awesome. I, that, that noble Zane, uh, proud of you worked out.

[00:21:23] Um, and yeah, I don't know how many people would do what you did. Um, and, and maybe, uh, you kind of have a followup to you, Zoe, you might have another take on this as well as I think one of the issues though, is just like, should Zane be the one making this decision? Should there be a GM that should set lineup? Like I understand Zane giving input. Maybe Zane's goes to GM, you know, last year on the five and say, Hey, Ryan Hardwood, blah, blah, blah. Maybe put this person in, but Zane's making the actual lineup decisions.

[00:21:50] Like, is that too much to ask of a player? Is, uh, I know we're in the infancy of MLP, but to me, I feel like there's gotta be somebody else that's more objective making the decisions. Yeah. I mean, I think there's a lot of GMs that really value the opinions of their players when it comes to lineups, some more than others. Um, I will say, I'm going to give you a compliment, Zane. I think you handle, uh, handle the, the player GM role really, really well. Um, I think you're fair. I think you're impartial again. Yeah.

[00:22:17] Very noble of you to, uh, to take, take the bench, um, in favor of what you think, uh, might've been a better team, but there's no reason that you should have to be doing that. Um, I think it's working out for the Chicago slice because they have somebody like you in that role. You know, you're, you're 30, you're, you've been around the block a few times, but you know, randomly you get somebody who's making a lineup that doesn't handle that as well. Or, you know, they have issues with people on their team. Like you're just, it's so messy. Um, again, it's working fine for you guys right now.

[00:22:47] Um, I think it works out. Brandon French does a pretty good job. You know, he's a lawyer, you know, very, very to the point by the book. But again, yeah, I think every team should have at least one person, you know, whether you call him a GM or you call him a coach, whether it's just an owner that decides that they, you want to come along for the ride that weekend, they should have some personnel there, some support, um, to, to do things for them and to, to interface with the league. Yeah, no, I agree with that. Um, I, uh, I think that in the, if I was in a different spot in my career, I wouldn't

[00:23:16] be good at this, right? Like if I was really trying to climb up rankings or secure sponsorships or, or whatever, like I would be very, uh, I think different in, in this, in that like, I would be me first probably. And I think that's probably the case with most of these. So do I don't, I think I'm good at it, but I don't particularly enjoy being, um, you know, all wearing all hats and it's, it's, it's hard.

[00:23:43] It is, it is harder than it would be the bearer bad news to, you know, the two people that aren't playing and you switch around a lot too. So like, maybe it's like someone's like, Oh, I played great yesterday, but we're going to give someone else chances like today. Um, it just can't be easy to manage all of that. It's not, but, um, I, uh, I'm a pretty transparent person. And so I think that that sort of communication style and also willing to be, uh, a direct

[00:24:08] asshole in a way, uh, helps like, um, yeah, I'm not, I don't shy away from confrontation. So, um, I'm nice, I'm nice about it, but I'm also direct. So I think that that sort of probably helps. Um, but I'd agree. Uh, I think that, I think nine out of 10 times it's not great. Uh, yeah, I do think that, I do think that every team should have somebody, somebody there, even if you do just decide to listen to, you know, like the fives, if they just decide

[00:24:35] to listen to Annalie the whole time, it's still not Annalie, you know, really submitting the lineup. Um, so I don't know. I do think that something that I, since I enjoy MLP so much, something I want to do is be in this role for the Chicago slice. And, you know, when I'm done being a player at some point. So, um, I guess it's like a little transitionary phase, I suppose, where I'm both. Um, but yeah, it leads to, it's not easy.

[00:25:04] Is there like a, like an official submit, submission process? Like you go into a website and it has to be done by a certain person or like, how does it look like when you actually submit the lineups? Yeah. Um, it's a, so it's a, uh, yeah, just like a pickleball.com interface. I just go submit the lineups on it. Like, um, I'm not, I'm not the GM of the, of the team, but they, uh, listen to my suggestions.

[00:25:29] Uh, so I don't get all of the direct league communication on, on that stuff, but, uh, we're in very close communication. And I'll put it that way. Yeah. No, I think that your situation is like the exception to the rule where it works out perfectly. I'm just like imagining if like you were on the fives for example, you're, you're on a team where as you're, you're pointing out, like you are in a different part of your career, your objective, you have the respect of the players, the players that are getting chosen or not chosen don't necessarily feel like there's a conflict of interest from you.

[00:25:58] So like everything works out perfect. But like I'm just imagining if a player was deciding, is it Federico? Is it no way? Is it will, you know, that's fucked. And that would never work. Right. Because those players are like fighting, obsessive in a different position. So yours is great. And I think that as we build out the league, there probably needs to be, every team has to have that title or that GM who submits, you know, the actual formal submission needs to come from them. If they get input from players, that's their prerogative. But like, we'll see as it goes.

[00:26:27] And I'm just, I'm assuming Zane will probably see you be, you know, submitting lineups for years to come as the GM of whatever team will have you. Um, so works out. Um, but I, I do want to move on, um, to, you know, speaking of GMs, this is maybe the perfect two people to ask, um, California black bears, right? They were basically dead in the water. They built a team for the future and then said, YOLO, fuck it.

[00:26:55] We're going to spend a hundred thousand dollars on Dylan Frazier. We're going to trade away our 17 year old, uh, female. We're going to get Zoe, uh, albeit 25, you know, no, no Zane, you know, no, not 30. Um, but just completely roll the dice on. I think what everybody thought was get the 12 seed and then realistically best case scenario is maybe get rolled by Brooklyn. I don't know. You know, I'm not, I'm not saying that you guys don't have a fighting chance, but it

[00:27:24] seemed curious to me. And I, my question is, did the black bears mortgage their future to, you know, for a misguided 12 seed playoff run? Um, no, I do not think they did. Um, I mean, I, I hear you. I think that it's really easy to be excited about the, the teenagers. Like I think Emma Nelson's awesome. Um, Cure is a really good player as well, but I think we still have a team for the future. I mean, Sarah, Dylan are 24. I'm 25.

[00:27:54] Um, I think Sarah and Sarah is like 30 K for them to keep. I'm 10. Like we're like a freaking value meal. Um, Dylan's a little bit more expensive. I think Pablo would maybe be a little bit more expensive. Um, but yeah, I think we're, we're so excited for next year. Obviously disappointed with the way that this season ended. But like you said, you know, realistically, it's 12 seed in the playoffs. Um, you know, it's, it's a tough first round. So I think our owner was excited at the prospect of, Hey, like actually it looks like we might

[00:28:21] be able to make it even though, you know, we, we were kind of dead in the water following our first two events. Um, but we're really looking forward to next year. I like to say that like the 23 to 26 year olds were like the last generation of like, you know, a lot of us played like really high level tennis. Some of us didn't. Dylan didn't. Sarah was a, was a really, really good tennis player. I played college tennis for five years. Um, so like we're still talented. We're still getting better. Um, but you know, we're also not 16. Um, but I think it's the sweet spot.

[00:28:50] I think, you know, early to mid twenties, like you get a lot of the, the positives of being kind of malleable. You're still learning. Maybe you haven't been playing the game that long, but you also get the, the positives of, you know, I have had the experience, you know, I went to college, I played on a team for five years. I am accountable to myself. I'm accountable to my teammates. Um, you know, I'm respectful, like, you know, I can cultivate relationships with my teammates, with my owners, um, all of those things that I think not that the kids, have any shortcomings like that, but it's just, you know, it's a different, different time in their lives.

[00:29:20] It's not something that they have done as much as somebody who's in their mid twenties. So no, the California black bears will be back. Um, we're, we're already looking forward to next year. I think, yeah, the late kind of scrambled to pick the team up, ended up only having two events together. Um, but I think you saw it and just like, we were still messing around with our mixed doubles lineup. Um, I think Sarah and I were really, uh, flicking at the end. Um, our first event wasn't great. Um, but yeah, I think we, we figured it out. So excited, excited for next year with the bears. Yeah.

[00:29:49] Cause what you have, I mean, you are with the black bears for two more years. Uh, Sarah's with the black bears for two more years. Dylan was picked up. What? Well, two more years of Dylan too. I think two more years of Dylan. Pablo 70 or something like that. He's expensive. He was more expensive. But I mean, like I said, you get me, Sarah and Dylan for 200 K. I don't care what the split is. That's a good, that's a good, uh, deal. Yeah.

[00:30:16] Uh, and it depends on like, there's obviously a lot of rules up in the air, but with like salary floor, salary cap type of stuff, that's the type of things matter. Like I think parody next year is absolutely coming. If some of these rules come anywhere close to fruition and teams like, honestly, I feel like teams like us and teams like you with several players that grow from low dollar amounts are going to be the next wave of champions in this league.

[00:30:42] Every single MLP to date has been won by either Ben Johns or a team that has had somebody get way better during the course of the season. You can go back to all whatever 12 or 15 MLPs all the way back. Every single one, either Ben or somebody who's gotten way better during the year. And even Ben's wins. A lot of them have come with players who have gotten better during that season, even back

[00:31:07] to the pioneers, um, where Megan and Etta kind of broke out in 2023 around that time too. Um, so it's always won by up and comers until maybe this year when we find out if you can really buy a team, buy a championship. Yeah. I mean, I think if, if you're looking at implementing salary floor, like we might almost be in a position where we have to go out and spend big on another guy. I mean, I don't know if it's going to be, you know, 250 K or 500 K, but you know, like

[00:31:36] I said, um, we're, we're got three people for, for 200 K and then you got some leftover. So I'm, uh, pretty much looking forward to it. So Nico, I think, I think I had, um, I texted Sarah this, I texted, or I'm sorry, I texted Zoe this, I texted Tice this. I think they're the, you guys are currently the seventh best women's doubles team in, in MLP. And you're like, all right, seventh out of 20, that's not that great. But like, you think about the teams above you, that's Anna Lee and Anna, uh, that's

[00:32:04] Anna Lee and Georgia, Anna Bright and Kate, Jackie and Rachel, um, Paris and, uh, and Tyra, um, maybe Jade and Catherine, Sophia and Tina. And then you guys are right after that. Like, I think that you are. Yeah. So the, the Cura move did surprise me. Uh, that's, that's the one outlier that surprised me of the black bears moves.

[00:32:29] It's just, I think it's like, uh, like the, um, maybe the difference in opinion or philosophies or mindset going into the C owner to the GM and like sticking to the strategy versus a banning the strategy because going into the draft, right? The black bears draft, like I think James Delgado, they get, um, Cura, they get Emma Nelson. Um, they're spending little, they're drafting 15 and 17 year olds. Um, and I think they're building for the future. Right. And then they spend a hundred K on Dylan and, and I will get to Dylan in a second.

[00:32:59] I don't think Dylan actually moves the needle too much. Like no, no offense to Dylan. I've been low on Dylan for a while, even though I think he's a great men's player. But, and then all of a sudden it's just like, I'm not sure if it comes from ownership or from Tice when it's like, nope, let's win right now. Uh, let's do something like, I think you are as a piece that you want to keep, you know, or at least one of those two versus shipping them both off, regardless of how good the two of you are, whether it be dream breaker built for the future. Um, so I, I, to me, that's like the biggest thing is just like, how do you stick to a game plan?

[00:33:28] But I think, you know, I might disagree Zane a little bit. Uh, and I know you said there was like an up and comer, but I don't think I've ever seen a team built for the future in MLP successfully, right? Like the teams have been good and they stayed good or they retooled completely. And then they were good. Like Columbus sliders didn't make the playoffs. They blew up their team, got a bunch of people made the playoffs. Right. But they didn't, they didn't like grow young players. So like is, is Zane, if you guys do it successfully or if the black bears do it with Zoe and sorry,

[00:33:58] which I'm not sure if that counts, maybe does. I don't know. Like you'd be the first team to successfully, I think, build up a team for the future. Yeah. I mean, that's an interesting debate though. Cause you could, you could argue that like some element of the fives was that from a couple years ago, right? Like Will Howells was coming over from APP and it only played a couple of PPA events and we sort of built with him. He was the up and comer. Mari Humberg got a lot better during that time too.

[00:34:26] I got a little bit worse during that time, but that's, that's an old story. The way that this happened where we had a draft back in 2024 or like didn't really allow for that. I think it's the league structure and now having bench players that made it an actually viable strategy. So it's never been an actual option. We've never been able to like keep players until three years ago anyway, or until 2024. So. Right.

[00:34:52] I mean, I don't know if I consider the fives counting either. I mean, you guys were the number one seed at year one. Right. And so what I'm just saying is like a team that builds knowing they're not going to be good year one. Right. Like I don't think Chicago slice said we're building a team that's going to win a championship this year. Right. You compete and compete, compete, but we're building for the future. Annalise team was win. Now we, we got lucky or smart. We, we made good decisions, but I guess that's just kind of what I'm thinking. Like, I guess now it might be possible. You got six players on a roster.

[00:35:21] You have keepers, you have different structure, but I'm just interested to see if it's going to actually be possible. If the slice or if the black bears next year can build on the pieces, keep a core team that gets better and competes for a title. I think there's probably more young talent available now. I know there's maybe some outliers with like Anna Lee, Hayden, the Johnsons, but you know, this is probably the first year that you've seen a good amount of the younger, you know, the teenage cohort coming in and like playing really well.

[00:35:49] I also think having the bench, it makes a big difference. Like if you're like, oh, so-and-so is not ready to play, but we want to obviously have them on the team. Having that bench spot provides, you know, guidance and some experience of playing. Like, I mean, look at like Elsie and John on the shock. I thought that was great for them. Who better to learn from than Anna Bright and Kate Fahey. You know, then they're like, okay, it's not really working for us right now. We need to trade you away. And now she's like, oh, I'm ready. Like she said it, she's like, I'm freaking ready. She was right.

[00:36:17] Like, I think a lot of that has to do with, with things that she gained when she was a member of the shock as well. Yeah. And then Nico, just for like in 2024, you didn't have a bench. There were only four players in 2025. You had a bench, but they can be picked up by any other team at any point. So why would you have an investment? Is that how they did it last year? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I remember that. Like you could steal people. Yep. You can steal people basically.

[00:36:43] Like if they weren't, so before every waiver period, you would have to declare who your starters were last year. And if, so let's say, um, like I could have been, I think it was after like the, the waiver deadline or whatever. I could have basically been like, um, taken from some other team or to go to some other team. Oh yes. Okay. But you also couldn't play men's and not mixed, right? That was not a thing. Yeah. I think that's, that was the case.

[00:37:13] You could, you had to play both. Okay. So yeah. Anyway. So just like the league rules is what's also like, there's more talent. And then the league rules, like being able to keep players for a couple of years. Yeah. Is the main thing. Oh, I hope, I, I, I hope like as the league gets better, there are ways to create a San Antonio Spurs or Golden State Warriors back in the day, or, you know, all these teams,

[00:37:39] all these, you know, the most popular sports teams seem to be homegrown, seem to build for the future. And then they get great. Right. Oklahoma city thunder. All these teams are doing that. Right. And so you got super teams and you got homegrown teams. And so hopefully it happens. Um, I'm excited to see it. I'm not sure if I'm convinced yet. Um, I do think another addition that could be valuable kind of given what you just said is having like a trade limit and amount of money that you can move around.

[00:38:09] So like say how 300 K a season that way. I mean, I know the bears, the bears were kind of flying through people this season. I don't know how many people they ended up actually having on their team. At one point, Craig Johnson was on the team for about 30 seconds. Um, that was just a technicality. Um, but yeah, just not being able to be like, oh, okay, we're going to trade you. Okay. We're going to trade you again. Um, and I don't think, I think maybe the, the ownership and the management was maybe a little bit, they weren't sure which pathway they wanted to follow with the roadmap of the season.

[00:38:38] I think that we, we hopefully landed on it and we're going to, we're going to ride, ride with the squad into next, next year. Um, but yeah, not being able to be like, all right, you're done. Like once a bear, always a bear. Like the amount of times I heard once a bear, always a bear this year. It's like 17 different Instagram posts from all the people that got traded away. Um, but yeah, like limits like that. Obviously it's confusing when Emma Nelson was on the bears and then all of a sudden she's, you know, on the slice next week or like I came from Florida smash. Everyone's asking me if I'm like moving to California now. I'm like, no, I'm not. It has nothing to do with it.

[00:39:06] Uh, but it's like, it's very confusing for fans as well. Even people who really do like, like the Gabon, they're very engaged. Yeah. Hard to, hard to keep track of. I don't know if there's a way to like limit the amount of, of trades or something. Like, I think it's interesting, but also like confusing. And I think the same thing of, I'm sure, you know, from what I understand, the league does regulate the amount of money that can be spent on a one particular trade. But I mean, these guys have each other's cell phone numbers.

[00:39:34] Like they could pay each other more than that on the side. Like, I don't know how you actually like prevent something like that. I'm going to start some shell companies for Kawhi Leonard style. I get what you're saying, Zane. Uh, I know, I do know that there is the goal or the, the proposed, the proposal, or maybe it was actually approved where the maximum amount of cash for the entire season that can be bundled with your trade is 250,000, which means, Hey, Miami pickleball club. Can get that 250 K and their first trade of the season.

[00:40:03] And then they can actually try and win as opposed to repeatedly gather another hundred, 200,000. Um, but I don't know, I think all the, all the decisions that have been made for MLP have been making the league better. So I don't think people that complain have a lot less to complain about. Um, but it's, it's looking good because anybody else ever had to do a pickleball intervention? Cause I sure have. Listen up a story time. So about a year and a half ago, my dad started playing pickleball. Uh, and he's like seven years old.

[00:40:29] We would go with my mom every single day and he'd play at the park with a bunch of other senior citizens. And he was obsessed with power. Like it was unhealthy. All he wanted to do, I think was hit a hole through the chest of everybody he was playing against. Absolute banger. And he wanted power paddle after power paddle after power paddle. And then eventually my brother reached out to me. He texts me. He's like, Hey, Nico for dad's birthday. I think we need to get him a control pickleball paddle.

[00:40:57] Let's go together, pitch in and let's get the 11, 6, 24 jelly bean pickleball paddle, which was like the best control paddle on the market at the time. And guess what? It worked. Like he still wants to rip balls as hard as possible, but the control is now there and the points don't just last three hits. It's been fantastic for him, for our family and everybody that he plays against. The intervention worked. Well, listen up. 11, 6, 24 is now releasing the jelly bean too.

[00:41:25] And you better believe my dad's birthday coming up. He's getting that paddle as well. And 11, 6, 24 and the dink are partnering together to give away 20 of them before they're even released. All you have to do is head over to giveaway.thedinkpiggleball.com to enter. Zane, I do say, I wanted to bring this up. Speaking of complainers, I talked a little bit about Dylan, right? And how I mentioned that. I'm not sure if he moves the needle or not. I think one big, big miss for the Chicago Black Bears was not getting Dylan for the first

[00:41:55] event when they traded him. I understand. You said it again. You said Chicago Black Bears again. You did that last week too, Nico. I did. I did. California Black Bears. I don't know why I keep saying Chicago Black Bears, but I remember that. All right. Try this again here. So the California Black Bears. All right. This is like, this is my mispronunciation problem. But the California Black Bears trade for Dylan Fraser. And then he's unavailable for the first event. They don't do particularly hot without him. I think they would definitely have done better.

[00:42:24] Had he been there, I think for sure you guys make the playoffs. That's my thought. Or at least it's much closer. But if I was going to make the trade, if I was going to spend 100k, I definitely would have said you have to be here. But you had prior engagements. But what I really want to talk about, Zane, is the prior engagement you had. I actually was on the pod last week. Did not know that you had a wedding. And then I was like, hey, Zane, I'm going to create a clip. I'm just going to ask, is it appropriate to miss an event for a wedding? And you're like, oh. You got roasted on that.

[00:42:53] You're like, you'll have to, you're like, oh, there's also a KOTC video. I'm like, I had no idea what you're talking about. So then I go watch their pod. Intense. Literally like. And he was coming after you. He said, Zane should quit MLP. No, I think he said Zane should be out of MLP. Yeah. He should be fined. And what was crazy is that, you know, then he compared you to Patrick Mahomes, which I think, congratulations. That's also insane.

[00:43:23] We'll take it. The way that argument went about was incredible. Started out with Patrick Mahomes. If he misses a week 15, almost playoff game for the Kansas City Chiefs at Arrowhead, what should happen to him? Also, Zane missed a match for the 13 seed Chicago Slice in pro pickleball. Fuck both those guys. You know, he should be panned. And so I thought it was crazy. But I don't necessarily completely disagree. I think there is a line, right?

[00:43:51] Like somewhere you figure out like when you can and can't miss an event. And just wanted to get your guys's take on this. Like to Jimmy's point, there's like six events a year. Should you have to go to all of them? Is it is there a hierarchy of like, I get married, I get to miss an event. My best friend gets married. Yes. Yeah. Extended family. Let's go back to Dylan quickly too, though. So that I would say that's two different situations.

[00:44:17] From my understanding, what happened with Dylan was the Bears traded for him. They called him. Could not get a hold of him for like two or three days. He was in Costa Rica at an ayahuasca retreat. Finally gets his phone back on like a Saturday afternoon. He's like, oh, I got traded to the California Black Bears. And he's like, hey, like, do you guys see me to come? He was, yeah, like, that was not like, and he had no reason to be available.

[00:44:47] He was on the Miami Football Club with absolutely no idea that he was expected to be in San Diego the following weekend. He had planned his summer. I think that goes to the need to regulate the trades as well. Like, if I get traded, I mean, I packed my bags for Grand Rapids, Michigan, playing for the Florida Smash, went to mid-season tournament. I went on vacation after. I went over to Lake Michigan with some family for a couple days and then already was planning on being in San Diego. But now I was playing in San Diego for the Bears instead of the Smash.

[00:45:18] So, like, luckily, I was already planning on being in San Diego. Like, if I was just on vacation, like, am I supposed to be like, oh, yeah, like, awesome, I got traded. Like, sorry, can someone take me to the airport? I need to go to California. Like, that's not really fair to me. I'm not treated like a professional enough to make those kinds of sacrifices, which leads to my next point. Something like, I mean, a lot of pro pickleball players have other jobs. Like, it's not, like, if we're getting paid like Patrick Mahomes, yeah, like, Zang, you can miss the wedding.

[00:45:47] But we're not. So, finding that balance of, like, yes, like, I'm passionate about pickleball. I want to help grow the sport. I want to be there for my team. But at the same time, like, it's not fair to be asked not to go to— I will say, I think it's a little bit weird. If you're that close to friends or related to these people that they planned it for a weekend you weren't available considering you were the best man in Mention of Honor. But it's not fair for you. But on that note, right, let's just talk about wedding planning for a minute. You've never been married before.

[00:46:17] Wedding planning doesn't happen, like, three months before the event like the fucking MLP schedule does. Like the MLP schedule does. I've had this on my calendar for nine months before the MLP schedule ever came out. So— Okay. That's a fair, super valid point. Yeah. I mean, they asked, when are you available? You didn't say block my entire goddamn summer because I have six NLP events. So, I mean, I get it. I understand. I think Jimmy's point—

[00:46:45] Again, I'm a big fan of Jimmy, so, you know, if I come after him— Don't come after me for coming after him. I think it was a little bit aspirational in the sense of, yeah, pickleball players are professionals and they should not be missing their obligations to do personal things. But the reality is that you just can't ask somebody to do that right now. Pickleball's not at the point that you're asking people to make that kind of sacrifice. Yeah, but when can you, right? So, you made a comment, like, if we're getting paid Patrick Mahomes money to— that I would be there, I wouldn't.

[00:47:11] Like, if I was getting paid Patrick Mahomes money, I would still be at that wedding. Like, now, it's a little bit different because you know that, all right— You'd probably take your PJ there and take your PJ back, and then maybe you miss an afternoon. You say, hey, can we be first on? Like, and then you don't miss it. Yeah, like, there's probably things that could happen if— like, more things that could happen if we were making, like, Patrick Mahomes money. But, like, I'm not skipping that wedding under any circumstances. Like, I'm not skipping it. Yeah, I mean, I would have to—

[00:47:41] I'm sure there's precedent in NBA NFL for how do they manage things like that. But— I think if Zayn was Patrick Mahomes— so, I'm not sure if— it's a lot easier for Zayn to say this as Zayn and not as Patrick Mahomes, I think. Because I agree. Like, I would— you know, I'm like, I'm not going to miss my brother's wedding or whatever, you know. But, like, if I'm Patrick Mahomes, and I'm getting paid that much money, and what, I'm going to get fined the fuck out of everything, plus the entire country, you know, is, like, relying on me, my whole city, right?

[00:48:09] Like, there's just so much going into it that— I don't think Patrick Mahomes, under any circumstance, Mrs. for being the best man in a wedding. I've never seen it. Yeah, I mean, the reason you don't see it. You never hear that. Yeah. You never hear, like, oh, LeBron James unavailable. Like, you know— Friends work. Yeah, his son's having a kid. Like, it's just not a thing. But I think that's the thing. It's like, that is, like, superstar, super stratus experience, where, like, the world actually then revolves around you, so you don't have to make those hard decisions.

[00:48:38] And the more famous and popular Zayn would get, the harder it's going to be to either make that decision, or it would be easier to require someone else to work around Zayn. But, like, I guess— I mean, he's pretty famous and popular. Did you see the hate he got? I did. I saw the hate Jimmy got for that comment, though. I thought a lot of people came to Zayn's defense, surprisingly. So, you know, I'm here. I'm defending him. I think that—I don't think that anybody has a right to tell you you can't. I mean, it's—you said your college roommate and your sister-in-law.

[00:49:05] Like, that's, you know, it's not your brother. You're an only child, weirdo. But it's as close to family as it's going to get. Yeah, I'm an only child. Like, it's my wife's sister that I had known for 15 years. She's the matron of honor. It was—I was the best man. Like, so, yeah, I mean, I think if I'm— It's a difficult comparison because if I'm Patrick Mahomes, right, they know exactly when I'm playing. Like, all that stuff, right?

[00:49:34] You don't have to plan around 38 weekends in football. You plan around 20 if there's playoffs, right? Yeah. Like, also— Well, I also think your point of the schedule coming out late, it comes out so late. They change stuff around all the time as well. It happens in PPAs where you're like— You're about to book your tickets. They're like, oh, we canceled this. Like, or sometimes they don't even tell you. They just update the website and you, like, have to clarify. So that's not really fair to the players either. It's like, I need to have, you know,

[00:50:02] what's a reasonable amount of time to have gotten the schedule so that you can make sure that you're available? And if it's the case of a wedding, like, a year? Like, maybe more? I mean, sometimes people really— Those things take a long time to plan. Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, I have zero regrets. I'm— And I think the idea that I should be banned from MLP is kind of crazy. I've never missed an MLP event. I've missed so many weddings.

[00:50:29] I would absolutely miss any MLP event for that wedding again. I have a clear conscience because I think family comes before everything. I have no problem with that, respectfully. I'm so glad. I appreciate it. Zane, you win and also all the other side questions I was going to ask about what if it was MLP finals? What if you were on the fives? Well, you know— Where do you draw the line, though? Where do you draw the line?

[00:50:56] Like, obviously you said this, you know, you're the best man. It's your roommate, college roommate. But what if it's, you know, what if it's a friend you don't really like that much? Like, what sort of— What if Jimmy— That's an interesting question. I mean, I've missed a million weddings, right? Like, this is—the only other weddings that I could think of are Jenny's other sister, Trinity, when she gets married, and my own, right? So those are weddings. Mine's—we already got married, so that wasn't a problem.

[00:51:26] In fact, my wedding was over an MLP weekend, which I obviously would have missed. It's why—yeah, I obviously would have missed that. So— Zane, what—here's the reverse. What would you be willing to miss if I invited you to my next wedding? I get an invitation. Hey, you're going to Nico's next wedding. I get divorced. I get remarried. Would you—would you miss an MLP event for me, Zane? Would you miss Pilates class? Like, where do we draw the line? What would you miss here for me? Zane does not do Pilates. Look at his butt.

[00:51:56] I have—what butt? Yeah, exactly. That's a crazy workout. I did Pilates one time, and I was cramping in muscles. I didn't even know that I had. I do want to know what you're doing for your calves. Your calves are something. Calf maxing. Yeah. Yeah, your calf maxing. I actually don't know. Oh, I really don't know. I don't really work out the calves more than anything else. I mean, they're doing a lot of work. Let me tell you. I really should lie and say that I've come up with some sort of calf routine, but I don't have one.

[00:52:23] Anyway, Nico, I wouldn't miss my morning shit to— That's why we're besties. All right, Zane. With that, maybe we should go back to MLP, because there was a lot that happened outside of your guys' teams. Why don't we start with the five? The number one seed, best team in MLP again, the New Jersey Fives. New look with Federico.

[00:52:53] Go in. Convincing, maybe. Win against the St. Louis Shock. Are they the team to beat now? And what do you guys think about the lineups? I think that's the biggest question that people had is, did they get the lineups right with Federico and Georgia, Federico and Will? What's the right lineup there? I really like the addition of Federico as a mixed partner for Georgia.

[00:53:20] I think that's going to probably sure up that spot for them almost every time. I mean, you saw what they did to Kate and Gabe, and I don't think Kate and Gabe played very well in that match, unfortunately. You know, probably hard to come emotionally down from what you just watched in the mixed one spot. I still just feel like men's is pretty vulnerable for the fives, though. Smartest man in pickleball, Jim Kloss, correctly predicted that Will Howes on the left was going

[00:53:47] to be the recipe for success for the fives men, but then they promptly got their behinds handed to them by Gabe and Hayden. Um, so I don't, I don't know. I think, I do think that some of the criticism that Noe Cleave has gotten this season has been a little bit unfair. Um, I mean, the man is 23 and two and mixed with Anna Lee, I think. I don't know how many they've won, but I do know they've lost to, they lost to Eric and they lost to Lane.

[00:54:13] I would say Eric is probably, maybe besides Hayden and Ben, like one of the most capable mixed males. Um, you know, if he's playing to his potential, which in that match he did. Um, I mean, Lane Sleeve is a backboard. I think she did exactly what he needed her to do in that match. Um, so yeah, Noe going 23 and two and beating multiple times Hayden and Anna. I mean, Hayden and Anna are a team that have literally beat Anna Lee and Ben. So the fact that he can step in Ben's shoes and obviously Anna Lee is, you know, flexing

[00:54:43] her, her game style a little bit to compensate for some things that he doesn't, doesn't have that Ben does. Um, that to me is super impressive. Um, I think he's been solid in men's. Um, I think he and Will both have been a little bit up and down. Um, Noe is maybe a little bit less. I think Will has a higher, maybe a higher ceiling, higher floor or lower floor, sorry. And Noe is a little bit more steady. Um, but like mentally it's maybe been a little bit, um, like up and down. Um, but I do think, yeah, I, I don't know why you would separate and make two new mixed

[00:55:12] teams when you have one that's not really losing. Yeah. Um, no, that's interesting. So I do think you want volatility in that men's doubles matchup because Gaden, Hayden, Hayden, Hayden, Hayden. I do that all the time. Yeah. Gaden and Hayden. Um, uh, they're the better team. Regardless of how you mix those three fives boys up, there's no team that's better than, uh, Hayden and Gabe. So you want a player like Will that's going to be a little bit more volatile.

[00:55:40] I think that Will and Fed is the right play. However, and they came to that by the end of the weekend. Um, they played, uh, they put Fed and Noe against, uh, me and John. Uh, and I think they were messing around with that and some other ones. I think they got to the right men's lineup, but are they going to have enough time to actually like sort of gel and mesh together, right? Like Will and I took a little while to get the styles going together. Will's a very good left side player.

[00:56:09] Great flick from the left side. Two-handed backhand over there. Big forehand in the middle out of the air. Um, good poacher, all that stuff. But like took a little bit of time to get familiar with each other's games. So, I mean, if they can figure that out, I think that's the right play. But that's somewhat of an if. And I do think you definitely want volatility in that second spot because there's no, there's no combo of those three that's going to consistently beat Hayden and Gabe. Yeah, I agree. I think the volatility point makes a lot of sense.

[00:56:38] I think Noe, great player, but you know, everybody knows what he's going to bring. Um, I think that's part of the reason why he's actually a great doubles partner for Annalie Waters because she's the ball to one. You know, she's just going to pull some random shit and it's probably going to work, um, to have him just, you know, super, super solid there, even though he's playing on the left side. Um, I think it's a, it's a good pairing. Um, I was gonna say, I was a little bit surprised it took them so long to get to the idea of Fed on the right, Will on the left. That would have been my probably first choice.

[00:57:06] Um, you know, not saying like, oh, it's the secret, the secret sauce and they're going to be unbelievable now. Um, but like, as far as using those pieces, like that's probably going to be your, your highest reward pairing. Yeah. But in men's doubles in particular, it's, it's actually really hard to go from playing a ton of right, uh, in men's to like switching over to the left. Like, I mean, I'm sure he's been practicing again and whatnot, but like, I do feel like it's difficult to play a full season, almost a full season on the right and then have to switch to the left at the end.

[00:57:36] Like it's, it's harder than you would think it should be. So yeah, I mean, I, I get it. Obviously it's women's double, so it's different, but it's a little bit tricky. It is. Yeah. It's definitely a different skill set. But I think they ended in the right spot. And I was initially surprised that they didn't put Fed and Annalie together because yes, Noe and AL are like successful. They're 23 and two or whatever you said, but they pulled a fucking Houdini act this entire weekend. They saved four match points against bad. Winners win.

[00:58:06] Winners win. But like, I don't know. It's pretty like, I would say with certainty that Fed and Annalie would be a better team than Fed and Noe. Obviously there's ramifications for that second mixed doubles, right? You basically are running two mixed doubles ones, but they saved four against Ben and Jade. They saved one against Dekel and Tina. They saved five against Hayden and Anna. Like, I mean, that could have been. Think about how much confidence that gives you though. You're like, we literally can't lose.

[00:58:33] And I think a lot of the criticism that Noe has gotten is like, he can't handle the pressure. And like, yes, people are like, Annalie's so good. She doesn't lose. But I'm like, her partner is there too. And like, he could have easily shit the bed at any point during all of those scenarios that you just explained. Yeah. No, you're right. And he didn't. I mean, I think the argument is like, it shouldn't have, it wouldn't have been that close with Federico. But obviously, I think whatever combo of Noe and Georgia or Will and Georgia is also weaker.

[00:59:02] So do you want to guarantee, like totally guarantee one spot or have really good opportunities in two? I don't know. Yeah, that's tough because Fed and Georgia actually almost lost to Pablo and Sara too, which is not a team that you want to be losing to. They didn't, Pablo missed a serve on match point. So didn't have to play that, didn't have to save that one. But you think, I don't, this might be a hot take, but I don't know how much better Fed

[00:59:30] and Annalie would be than Noe and Annalie. I don't either. And think about how unique of a mixed female style she plays and like, how is Fed going to adjust to that? Like, she's going to get a middle, that's mine. Like, I'm going to pull this too, you know, into 19 different spots. So just be ready. Yeah, but he's basically copy and pasted Ben Johns and barely even put it into his own words. He's got like the same game as, as Ben. Like, it's like almost everything that he's done is sort of modeled off of Ben, at least

[00:59:59] from, from the kitchen line and whatnot. Like, uh, very, very similar in, in a ton of ways. I guess, but it's not like, I understand Fed says he modeled his game after Ben, but like, don't a lot of people like, what does that really mean? Like, it's not like she's like, oh, is that Ben or is that Fed? Like, he thinks like that too. Like, I remember when he used to think like that with me. Um, I just, yeah, I think it would be quite the adjustment. And I don't think Anna Lee would trust Fed the same way she trusts Ben. She'd be like, yeah, okay, great.

[01:00:29] I'm glad that you look up to my mixed partner, but I'm not going to let you take that ball when push comes to shove. Yeah, but I don't know if Anna Lee is going to trust Noe all that much. I mean, that's what lost them their, their match against the Shock was she was getting completely isolated and started coming way, way over and lost three points at the end of that, uh, at the end of that mid-season match. Like she, I don't think she does trust him, but he knows it and they've figured it out. Yeah. Yeah. Fair enough. Look here, here, here's my thoughts, uh, that nobody asked for.

[01:00:59] Um, so I, I am no pro player. I'm no Jim Kloss, but this is what I would do. Uh, this is Nico, the GM here. All right. Um, taking applications or whatever, sending my application out. I, I, one, I, I originally thought I would play Fed and Anna Lee a hundred percent mixing that I am now team Fed in Georgia. I think if you have a team that's like 29 and three or whatever they are, just keep them together. You have like a 90% chance that you're winning with Anna Lee. And then I think Fed and Georgia are now the best mixed two team.

[01:01:27] And if they can put the beat down like they did with, you know, Gabe and Kate, and it can be almost anybody else. Um, and then you have basically like two 80% chances of winning one guaranteed win in the women's match for the most part. Um, I think you're set, but here's the other thing. I like the idea of Fed on the right. I would play him with no way. And here's why I actually think men's doubles for that team is a throwaway. They, they are so OP on both mixed teams and Anna Lee.

[01:01:56] It doesn't matter that much. And I would put no way in. So his confidence is like, Hey, you're our guy for both of these. So you're not a liability in men's. We're going to put you in both. I don't think the Delta between no way and will is matters that much, but it gives, I think no way this much more confidence that he's playing every single match and makes him better in mixed. So Fines, if you're listening, Ryan Harwood assist, I can be assistant to the regional GM. That's what I would do. That is true. It is actually difficult to come in just for mixed.

[01:02:25] That's something that I've heard from my teammates. Like it's something that I see, like you get a lot of jitters out in those gender doubles matches. So I do think it is difficult to come in and know you're only playing mixed and everybody else that you're going to be playing against has already played. So there, there's a decent, uh, there's some decent rationale there. Do you think that gives no way confidence to play? But what if he plays and loses every men's match? He's still playing. I don't know. I don't think he's going to lose every men's match.

[01:02:53] I mean, I don't really know how he is, how he, I mean, you said it was a throwaway. I think that's maybe a little bit dramatic. Um, I think they can win a majority of their men's matches. They don't need it. It's not, it's not part of their recipe. Important match for them by far is men's double. Yeah. Um, yeah, I guess I don't really know what makes no way tick. I am. Um, I, I think that, uh, I think that the problem is against everybody, but the shock, they're great. Obviously.

[01:03:17] I think that, uh, Hayden and Anna are favorites over, over Annalie and, um, and no way. I think that they win a majority of those matchups. Who wins a majority of them? They're one in two this season though. Right. They are. Yeah, they are. Okay. But you think they play 10 times. They're going to, they're going to get how many, six, seven. I think they're six and a half out of 10 if they play. Stop it. How much of a setback is not winning this one?

[01:03:47] Like mentally, emotionally, like you said six match points. I haven't watched it yet, but somebody says I should go back. Cause it was like, no, you have to. It was, it was the craziest mixed doubles, uh, match game I've ever seen. 46 minutes long. Um, there, the emotion, like the crap talk back and forth, the facial expressions, the back and forth between, uh, Annalie and Hayden was insane. I'm sure you've seen. I've seen some of that. Yeah. You got to go watch it. I mean, I think you're, you're Hayden Patrick and you're Anna Bright.

[01:04:18] And like, you're obviously bummed that you didn't win the final belt of the season. You're moving on to playoffs. You just had an absolute like heartbreaking loss personally, like in that mixed doubles one tie, but also as a team, I mean, the shock are a very collective unit. I think that's one of the things I really like about them is they, they're, they're a team culture, um, that you hate it or love it. Um, and now you got to go back in two weeks and forget about it. They wouldn't play the fives for, for three, but I think, yeah, I'm still going to respond to that. Yeah. I don't know.

[01:04:47] That depends on the person. Do you think like, I do not take Hayden and Anna as the two type of people that are going to crumble from one loss. Like they're the type of people that honestly, I think it's productive for them to have lost this because I think whoever won this matchup was going to lose the finals. Um, it's better to come in as the, as the underdog with the chip on your shoulder, in my opinion. I mean, I, I think like they're both obviously amazing athletes.

[01:05:15] Like they're probably gonna be like, I can't believe we fucking lost. Like, let's go. Like we're on an absolute mission. Like that's never happening again. Um, but like, again, Annalise probably like, oh man, that was close. Like we got to really button it up for the next time we play. So it'll be interesting to see the, the mental adjustments and the rebound from the shock and you know, how the fives are truly feeling after winning that match and to see what happens, uh, when they'll inevitably meet in New York, unless Connor Garnett has anything to say about it.

[01:05:40] And, and, uh, the, uh, if we go back to the season shock, when the first matchup get absolutely demolished second matchup against the fives come in, demolish the fives in the third matchup. And then you'll not to, not to spoil, uh, the outcome, but Hayden was like a gimme ATP away from winning the match or winning. I saw that the backhand. It was insane. It was like right there. It was easy. I could make, I could make that shot. I told him you're left-handed.

[01:06:08] So there's a little bit of a caveat there, but I mean, I'm actually like better on the right ATPs, but, uh, or, but anyway, yeah. So, I mean, he, anyway, I think that they're like, we blew it. Not we are worse and we're going to come back harder. Maybe Zane's going to text him again, say what's up. Zane, I texted him just to make sure once again, you know, his, his response literally was we're going to fuck them. And I thought I've got that from Gabe and we talked about, is it the language barrier? No, I don't think so.

[01:06:36] I think it's an age gap between us, you know, 30 year old unks, uh, and the 20 year old kids. But, uh, word on the street is, uh, Hayden, they're going to mess them up in the final. So we'll see. Okay. Yeah. I love that. Yeah. I'm, I'm calling it right now. I think the shock on the title and if I'm wrong, I'm going to go on Twitter and I'm going to deny it. You've got good role models. Who do you, who do you, who do you, uh, look up to in that regard then? I shouldn't say. I shouldn't say.

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[01:08:52] So the shock made a huge move. Um, they got, they got Hunter, right? They, they treated us obviously Looch and, um, and, uh, um, LC, but they, they have their core team from a couple of years ago. So the fives don't write. They only have AL from that core team. So I almost wonder like, you know, the shock has their thing, but for the fives, like, does

[01:09:21] it feel that good if you, I don't know, changed everything, bought a title? Yeah. I mean, I think I, I really admire what the shock did. Um, I mean, I think drafting Hayden and Gabe at the time that they did was obviously, I don't know who drafted for them. They had an eye for potential, um, because neither of them were close to the players they are now. Um, same with Kate. Um, I mean, I think she just keeps getting better, um, and has more room to improve.

[01:09:51] And they also focus a lot on the, the team chemistry, the team culture. They, Eric Lang, I think does an amazing job with them. I think the Chaffetz are obviously super invested. Um, so, I mean, that's kind of why I would lean more towards, I don't know, not that I don't love the fives. I had a very fun weekend in Dallas with them last fall. That was phenomenal. Um, but yeah, I just think there's, there's something charming about the way that you do it when you, you cultivate your own, your own team, you keep everybody around.

[01:10:18] The fans for the shock, I would say are probably, I don't know. They don't come to the matches and count to five, like the fives do, but I would say they're probably the most widespread. Uh, we played a scrimmage with them maybe on Wednesday. We played up at the Pickler in Orlando and there were like so many people there watching this practice. I was like, what is going on? Like, it was kind of, it was a little weird actually, but I was like, good for them. Like a lot of fans. Um, yeah, I don't think it feels as good if you, uh, if you don't have Zayn Nabrutil on your team. That's not the point that I was getting to.

[01:10:48] I actually think it's something that, uh, something that I saw like somewhat debated, but I think it's like from my end, it's like, okay, sure. Maybe it's not the same as doing it with your original four players, but are you ever going to not try and make the best team that you possibly can? Like, I don't think so. So I've seen some saying like, yeah, you, you're, you're buying a championship. Like, do you expect them not to? If that's, if that's something that's on the table?

[01:11:15] I think it's so tough because in pickleball, it's not like you can keep people on the bench or like put them in when the game's over. Like you literally get one extra person and the shock in the fives case, like they're using that, I guess, and they're not really using Angie Walker right now, but like you have a dream breaker specialist. Like there's just no room for people to be there for vibes. Um, which kind of sucks because like, I'm sure they would have loved to keep the core together and be able to have more like reliable players for the fans to really get into.

[01:11:42] Um, but yeah, it's not fair to, to ask someone not to try to win a championship if they can. Wait, also what happened to that top 20 rule that made it so that the Mari trade is Will outside of the top 20 and everything? Oh, way outside. Injuries. He's like 40. Yeah. Oh, wow. Okay. I mean, so they got by on basically like a technicality as a result of that. And Millie is like 21, I think. They did. Which I don't, I don't know why that, that went through.

[01:12:09] I don't know how the fives got her off the squeeze like that. Like I don't, I can't imagine that she like was really pushing for that, but whatever. It's besides the point. Yeah. Nico, where do you come down? Like, can you, do you feel good about a, if you're the fives, do you feel good about a, a bot championship? Chip, that's what, that's what, that's what people are, are saying. And to be fair, like you can spend a lot of money and not buy a championship because the St. Louis shock did, you can argue they kept the team together, but obviously they spent

[01:12:38] 1.3 million to get Anna Bright back. Yeah. Well, I think I don't fault the fives. Here's the thing. I'm a, I'm a, I'll bring this to baseball. I'm a huge San Francisco Giants fan. Right. And I enjoyed the three championships we won in the 2010s. And every year I want to kill myself because the Los Angeles Dodgers, they buy every, just not just yesterday, they traded for the best pitcher in baseball and they already have like the second best pitcher and the third best pitcher and the fourth best pitcher. Their team is fucking insane. Right.

[01:13:07] So the fives are like the Dodgers. Right. But what do you want the Dodgers to do? They have the money. They have the draft capital. They have the farm system. Of course, they're going to do everything they can to win. So they're going to win a third championship in three years and giants can't compete. And that's, that's a bummer. Right. And so the fives, I do not fault you for what you're doing, but back to my Bay area sports roots, also a golden state warriors fan. And when they won their first title with Steph Curry and Klay Thompson and Draymond green, all players that they drafted, it felt fantastic.

[01:13:36] Then they traded God. They signed Kevin Durant. We want a couple more titles. Did not feel as good. I will tell you that it did not feel as good. I'm glad you, I'm glad you have the gall to admit that. I appreciate that. That was funny. It was really funny. I mean, but like it's way more fun to win that title. So we won one before him. We won one after Kevin Durant and those two felt so much better than the one with, with Katie. And so I think it obviously would have felt so much better had they won last year or the

[01:14:03] year before they choked the shock choked and now they have a super team. So is it going to feel as good? No. Why? Because Federico, there's no way that he can have the same feeling for the team either. You know, nobody's going to have the same feeling for fed fed feds. Not gonna have the same feeling for the team. It's a little bit different, but I don't fault them whatsoever. So yeah. I mean, it's, it's also like, you know, it's, do you build a team around Steph Curry in the last year of his and right before the end of his career? Like you don't know. I mean, you kind of know, but like theoretically, Anna Lee could be on any team next year.

[01:14:31] Um, so do you, you have to do whatever you can to win now when you got AL on the team, right? Like it'd be crazy. It would be crazy not to. So I don't know. I think that's an interesting debate that's being had online. Like, I think you're right. It doesn't feel the same, but I also think it's like, how could you, how could you, if with that at your disposal, how could you not do it? And the fives did it better. So this is the thing that's, that makes me frustrated because I'm not a fast fan, right?

[01:14:58] Um, I'm objective third party, but the, I can say that with a straight face, but the, the mad drops are doing the same thing. The last year of the Ben Johns contract. And they ended up with Connor Garnett, not the same as Federico. And we saw it. And so like the fives, we hate them. We ate the chant, whatever. They got Anna Lee, but they got it done. And so kudos to them, their team, their GMs for getting Federico when other teams could have gotten two and they fumbled. I have a question.

[01:15:27] Do you think that there is more like outcry about teams buying players? Like what the fives did with Federico or would there have been more outcry had the shock dropped Anna Bright and then not emptied the coffers to get her back? I think, I mean, like you don't drop Anna Bright this year without expecting to do that. Right. I don't see if there's a world where they dropped her and did. Dallas Flash did it with Georgia Johnson.

[01:15:56] Yeah, that was just a, I mean, that was just a brutal blunder. I suppose. But you think, do you think if they, what if they got outbid? What if they were, they couldn't get her back? Like, do you think everyone would be like, why would you do that? Like, would they have then turned on like other people? Like you should have dropped Gabe instead. Like we need AB back. Or are you just like, I can't believe you wouldn't spend the money to like, to buy us our championship, buy us our team back. Yeah. I mean, I just think you knew that the Chaffetzes were going to spend, I mean, I'm sure they

[01:16:23] probably had 5 million as their number for Anna Bright, right? Like there was, I get the sense there was $0 amount that they were not getting Anna back. Otherwise, if they were like, okay, we're only going to spend 500,000. I think they dropped either. I think they had to have, it would have been. Couldn't have been Kate, I don't think. It couldn't have been Kate, either Hayden or Gabe. I don't remember which one of them may have been dropped before, but yeah, they wouldn't have done it. All right.

[01:16:51] So next up, what did you guys think of the event in general? Obviously, Nico, you weren't there. Zoe, you were. With everything going on between the playoff chase, between the finals, we didn't even talk about the just two minute long point that Ben and Jade had against Anna Lee and Noe.

[01:17:16] To me, I feel like this was the best MLP event that I can think of. Now, I might be forgetting some, but nothing readily comes to mind as like, yeah, that one was better. The one that comes to mind closest was last year's equivalent at the end of the year in Dallas, where we had that Anna Lee versus Catherine 2020 in the Dream Breaker, where you couldn't even hear yourself think. But that was kind of the only moment that I remember from that one, other than there were

[01:17:46] a couple other good women's matches. But where is this rank for you guys in terms of just overall best MLPs? This is my first season playing NLP. So I don't really have as much of a scale for what the standard has been in the past. But I would say a couple things that made it really great. The playoff implications, just the teams that were there, like having the drops, the fives of shock, and Brooklyn. I know Brooklyn ended up being a little hampered. We can maybe talk about that a little bit later.

[01:18:16] So like really good pickleball. That's where you got the goats facing off. Then you got Hayden and Anna playing, Anna Lee and Ben. The venue was great. I really liked the setup. There were a couple things that were a little bit suboptimal, but I liked kind of how they were like back-to-back with VIP in the middle. It felt like it brought the energy up because you could kind of watch both at the same time. I think a lot of people were sitting in that location just to do that. But it was cool.

[01:18:43] Like after our match, Zane, like going on Twitter and people were like, that was the best MLP match I've ever watched. And like, I remember being like, oh, like, was it that good? Like, I don't know. Like what I thought of really, I thought maybe people weren't watching as closely just because, you know, we weren't any of the big teams or the big names. But I was like, no, this is cool. Like people really care. And like they really appreciated like the fight that everybody had. And like obviously like didn't go well for us. But I mean, I'm proud of the way that we fought.

[01:19:12] And it was cool to have such engaged crowd that really cares about what's going on. So yeah, I would say I, this is kind of kind of a bad answer because again, I didn't play MLP last year, but like, yeah, top, top for me. I thought St. Pete was great. I thought the venue was great. The fans were really, really good on Friday, particularly Friday. Saturday was good too. But yeah, they did a good job. The venue was great too. I loved St. Pete. It just, it didn't have like, actually St. Pete was my favorite venue.

[01:19:41] And I think one of my, I think just in terms of a quality event, yes. But it was kind of early-ish in the season. Didn't have that much ramifications. And there's no standout on court moments really from that one, right? Yeah. You just can't orchestrate that. Yeah. Yeah. You can't. No, you can't. So maybe St. Pete needs to be a playoff venue or something like that. Yeah. Because like you need, you need some of that like sense of urgency as well.

[01:20:06] Like things that come to mind for me were Atlanta with the squeeze in 2023, right after Tour Wars. It was an electric one, huge turnout with fans, just a really compelling event. The following year was, I think finals in Orlando was interesting, but just not quite the same when you've played all three finals match on a single day.

[01:20:35] I think that was a total airball. It could have been incredible because our three matches against the Flash were insane. And then last year, Dallas comes to mind as well. But if you guys, and New York City too, I mean, New York City last week is, or last year has probably got to be up there as well. Great crowd, Central Park, 2-1 comeback from the Columbus Sliders. And they did the same thing against the Shock earlier that weekend. Yeah.

[01:21:04] I mean, if there's one that would give it the edge, I guess it would have to be Central Park last year, the finals. But anyway, you guys are listening. Leave us a comment. What your favorite MLP event ever was? I think this is it for me. This is it. This is the one. And the thing is, I think, you know, other than the fact that it was the one seed being decided, the top four teams and who gets the bye being decided, five teams vying for the last playoff spot, it being it by Disney World, where people can go and do pickleball.

[01:21:31] It's a destination where it also packed the entire stadium. But to me, what signaled that MLP made it is how many people gave a shit about the 12 and 13 seed battling it out randomly. You know what I mean? Like last year, that doesn't happen. It definitely doesn't happen any other time where anybody cares at all about your guys' matchup. But now I saw it. Everybody cared. When I was watching, I was in Little Tokyo in LA and I lost service in the middle of the

[01:21:58] match for Mixed 2 and I was devastated. And then everybody had the time of their lives besides me. I watched it afterwards. But the fact that people care about 13-12, I think, has to put this one over the top. Best event ever. Another kind of underrated thing that they did at this event, I don't know why it happened this way, but it could have just been scheduling. There were 12 teams at this event and there had been 11 teams at every other MLP event all season long.

[01:22:25] And I can't imagine that it would be that hard to have 12 or have 10. Don't have one pool of five and one pool of six. You have the Hogs in the pool of five. Congrats. Someone's getting at least four points. Yeah, I would be super interested. And the Hogs get one point. Yeah, the Hogs get one. The craziest thing is you could go in the... If you're in the pool of five and you go winless, this could have helped us. We were in a pool of five in New York, did not win a match, and we still got a point.

[01:22:54] Like, how do you get a point for showing up? It should be zero instead of the pool of five. Yeah, we don't do participation points. This is pickleball. Yeah, I can't imagine it would be that difficult to do even number of teams in each group every single weekend. I would also be super interested to see, like, how does... How do everyone's strength of schedule, like, end up stacking out? Because I know... I think the Palm Beach Royals are, like, maybe investing in that metric.

[01:23:20] But, like, for me, I don't want anyone catching strays here, but, like, I'm pretty bummed that Vegas was in that other pool. Like, I think if the Bears play Vegas, I think we win seven times out of ten at least. But they... You know, my credit to them. They played well this weekend. They beat Brooklyn. But I think that if they were in our pool and we were in their pool, we're playing in Dallas next weekend. Yeah, I think... Didn't work out that way. I'd agree with that. I mean, that's something that we've talked about a few different times, and it's out there.

[01:23:49] I mean, I just think with 20 teams in the league and, you know, six regular season events, you've just got to play every team. You've got to have a crack. Every team's got to have a crack at the pot. Well, yeah, that's the other thing, too. Every team's got to have a crack at... What did you say, Sam? Don't worry about it. Every team's got to have a crack at the hog. Every team's got to have a crack at Phoenix. Everybody's got to get cracked by St. Louis, too. Yeah. So, yeah.

[01:24:16] It is bizarre to me that there were a few different teams that we didn't play once. A couple teams that we played four times. Yeah, we had the same. I mean, I had a little bit of a different experience because I did get traded, but there are a few people that we played. I played multiple times on the Smash. Smash. And then, like, I think the Smash actually had a decent schedule in that they were only gonna... The only team we missed... They would have missed playing was Miami. But then we also played the drops, like, a couple times.

[01:24:43] We played Brooklyn a couple times back-to-back as well, which was like, okay, great. Like, back-to-back weekends and pool play. Like, could we not play Brooklyn? Yeah, I think that's relatively low-hanging fruit to fix for next year. Even pools and play everybody during the regular season. Yeah, I liked your tweet about that. Like, wins and losses from this weekend. Even numbers. Big win. Yeah, big win for even numbers. Let's go. Another complaint that... It was actually pretty bad.

[01:25:13] Grandstand was obviously super close to center court. Like, explained how they were kind of side-by-side. And the music was so loud. We played the Palm Beach Royals on Grandstand on Thursday. And you, like, could not hear anything. Like, every time there was a timeout or a break-in game on center, it was just, like, an absolute... Like, yeah, it was pretty insane. You, like, couldn't hear anything. Sara said that she, like, was, like, getting, like, disoriented because it was so loud. Couldn't hear the score being called.

[01:25:41] They ended up muting the speakers on that side of the court. So it was a little bit better. But still, it's, like, tough when you have two courts together. Like, obviously, you want to cultivate the environment in center court and make it exciting. But, like, there are people trying to play pickleball, like, 20 feet away. It's like, I'm in the middle of, like, hitting a reset. And, like, all of a sudden, like, Quatroca comes on on the speakers. Like, it's not super easy. Yeah, fair enough. I don't know what exactly you do about that because the center court atmosphere was electric on timeouts and stuff.

[01:26:11] Like, and the, you know, the walkout songs, everything. Like, that's tough. I like it. I think they probably, I mean, cutting the speakers was a huge help. Like, kudos to whoever figured out that they could do that or, like, who mentioned that or suggested doing that. But, like, I think they just need to turn it down a little bit. Like, because I also heard people who are saying, like, oh, yeah, the music is really loud on CC. Like, you know, people are going to be excited if there's pickleball going on, the crowd is electric, and there's music playing at, like, a 6 instead of at a 9.

[01:26:42] Fair enough. I liked it. I think you're just not a good hang. I think that, yeah, you're definitely, like, the neighbor that's like, turn that music down. Yeah, that was a little bit, that was a little bit caring-y of me. But, I don't know. I just, it was too loud. Too loud. I agree to disagree. I mean, no, actually, I agree. It was incredibly loud. It was a year-y of me. But in a good way for you. But I thought it was, I thought it was a vibe.

[01:27:12] Okay. It was a vibe when I was playing on CC, but it wasn't a vibe when I was, you know, getting my ass kicked by Annalie Waters. And, yeah, then I have to also cover my ears. I can't listen to Martin Emrich whisper things to me in the timeout. Oh, speaking of Marty, how come he was on the fives bench yesterday? He's on your team. Well, our season's over. All right. Fair enough. Okay. Anyway, what else do we have?

[01:27:41] We'll skip the playoff preview. Nico and I are going to do a quick, or not a quick, we're going to do an in-depth playoff analysis. As a different one. Should we do, we'll do the quick, the very quick summary. Dallas, or sorry, Brooklyn ended up being the five seed. They selected to play SoCal. Dallas was the sixth seed. They selected Vegas.

[01:28:10] Neither of them wanted the Chicago Slice smoke. I was waiting for this. I knew Zayn was going to say that shit. I knew it. He's so excited. He's so excited. It was the Palm Beach Royals. They get another crack at us. And then we also have... You mean they get to crack you again? You get to crack you again. You get another crack at them. That was my words. We have... That was... Yeah. You can say whatever you want. We had match points. So... I like that matchup. Oh, yeah. I forgot about that. Yeah. You guys... You do want...

[01:28:39] You want another crack at them for sure. And then finally, you got the bouncers versus Texas. So, for the rest of this... Oh, let's ask... MVP. We got Annalie Waters. Yawn. Fucking boring. Of course, she's the MVP. Like, can we come up with a real MVP for the season? Like, I hate the idea of just giving the... I said this last year too. Why are we just giving the best player the MVP?

[01:29:08] I don't find that interesting in any other sport. To me, value does not mean the best. Right? You could go spend a million dollars on a car, but is that a good value? I don't know. How good is the car? Right? Like... To me, I think of value as what you got for what you spent. Somebody that had impact way above and beyond for their team.

[01:29:34] So, I actually agree with a lot of Nico's takes on this with somebody like Danny Townsend. Um, I think that... You guys love Danny Townsend. We fucking love Danny Townsend. I really like Danny Townsend. Um, I think you're on the right track with what you think value is. And it's not exactly what Annalie Waters brought. I don't think Danny Townsend is the right example. I would say someone like J-Dub more.

[01:30:04] I mean, Danny Townsend's great. Like, I think for that team, she was like such a spark plug. Like, so much energy. Um, if you were to break down her stats, I don't think it would have been like, oh, wow. Like, you're carrying. Like, I think women's with Alex, they're good. But they definitely took some surprising losses. Augie and her definitely were playing really well. And I'm not saying Danny Townsend didn't have anything to do with, you know, getting J-Dub, you know, sorted out.

[01:30:34] Like, obviously, um, he was playing great. And that speaks to his teammates as well as to him. Um, I think J-Dub would be a candidate for MVP. Not even from like a monetary, like, way, I think, with your car example. But yeah, with... I mean, that team was dead in the water. Like, they... J-Dub, Augie, Brooke, and Albie Hwang lost to the Florida Smash in Austin in regulation. Um, and I know Albie's not their usual starter. And Tyra was out that event.

[01:31:03] But there's nobody on the Florida Smash that is even reminiscent of Tyra. Um, there's nobody on the Florida Smash that is a shadow of what J.W. Johnson is. Um, so the fact that like the Smash, like we were able to go in and win that, like, dead in the water. Again, great pickup from Danny. I think more, like, from a, like a leadership and an energy standpoint than necessarily on the court. Not saying she's not a really good player. Um, another one that comes to mind. Um, Jackie Kawamoto.

[01:31:29] Um, I think if you take Jackie Kawamoto off of Brooklyn, like, they're not good. Um, they were dealt kind of a tricky hand. But like, yeah, she was great. She's been playing really well with Hannah Blatt. They were really good in Chicago, actually. They didn't play as well, um, this week in Orlando. But she's super valuable to the team. Yeah, I'd probably put... Do you have any you want to add? Yeah. The way that we're defining it, I would probably put, like, Kate in that conversation. She's the fourth best player on that team. But like, she's playing incredible. Like, she's had an awesome season.

[01:31:58] Oh, I was going to say, she's been on the most... It's funny. I actually ran into her at the airport last night. She's been on the most improved MLP list for the last three years. She's never won. She's never won the award, though. Oh. I don't think she's going to win the award either. It's going to be sad. Yeah. Yeah, they got to figure out something else. The Kate Fahey Consistency Award or something. They didn't name it after her. I... I'm not just blowing smoke, and you would never win this because you're on the smash, but you... We texted about this. You pulled them out of Hogs territory.

[01:32:28] Like, your value to that team was, like, tremendous. Other one I would put in is Sofia for Palm Beach as well. Like, coming in... You'd go Sofia over Tina? Tina, yeah. I guess Tina as well. That's a good point. I think... Yeah, I'd probably just think of a little recency bias with Sofia coming in as her first MLP season. But yeah, Tina is a rock there as well. So, that's a good call out. Yeah. I do think that the...

[01:32:56] It's more fun the way we just described it. Like, yeah, Annalie Waters, great player. Like, you know, give her her excellence award, give her her medal. But like, yeah, it's a little bit more fun when some of those more... Less... Less mainstream names come into it, and then you're like, oh, like, they actually had a really good season. You know, whether it's someone like Jackie Calmento, everyone knows who she is. Or it's someone like, yeah, like, who is this person? Oh, she's playing for a team that's not as good, but like, she's still doing a really good job. So, yeah. How about we...

[01:33:22] Do you want to do an unofficial Pickle Pod most improved player as well? Because I don't love... I... Yeah, Kate, again, like, yeah, she's playing great. But I also like, kind of like the idea of lesser known players coming in. Yeah. Almost think of more of like a rookie of the year award. And so... Yeah, I like rookie of the year. I also think that if she was like most improved, like... I think I'm going to use Dani Townsend as an example again. Like, she's on most improved list.

[01:33:52] I don't necessarily know how much better she's gotten, but she's gotten a lot more coverage. Like, she was already... I played her before MLP season started. She was really freaking good. She's still really freaking good. She's probably a little bit better because she's been playing with better competition for the last three months. But like, it's not like she came from nothing. Same with Sofia. It's like Sofia was already really, really good. She's proven that she's maintained that level against the best players in the world, which is really impressive. But she hasn't necessarily gotten better. I mean, it's so easy.

[01:34:19] One is you just have rookie of the year, one award, most improved player, another award. You guys can make the decision. Like, Sofia, Dani, Nico Acevedo, you know, Armand Batia. Put them in rookie of the year. And then you can put Kate. Yeah. You can put Eric Onsens and whoever else in the most improved. Agreed. Yeah. We definitely need a rookie of the year. I have my answer. All right. Everybody come up with their answer for rookie of the year. Rookie of the year. All right. Got it.

[01:34:52] All right. I got mine. All right. Who do you want first? All right. My choice, as you guys know, it's pro-Danny Townsend pod. She's my rookie of the year. Danny Townsend. Easy. Yeah. I got Danny for rookie of the year. Wow. I was going to say Elsie Hendershot. Like, if you're talking about somebody that's gotten better, like, we were texting about this earlier. Like, she's literally better from two weeks ago when I played her in Chicago. Yeah.

[01:35:21] That's why she was going to be my most improved player. Oh, I did it wrong. Did I do it wrong? All right. Yeah. My most improved player is Elsie Hendershot. You can just cut that. Who else is a rookie, though? There's a lot of rookies. Like, half the league. Danny. Sophia. Armand Batia. Who else? Tama. Nico Acevedo. Tama. Close. Okay, wait. I have a question.

[01:35:48] Like, I know you guys love Danny Townsend, but, like, her numbers couldn't have been as good as Sophia Sevings, right? They're close. Are they? Well, because Danny, like, with Augie, was, like, 13 and 3, like that. Yeah. They're very good. She probably makes up for the difference in mixed, maybe. It's definitely so good for more wins. But, I mean, the reason I get it to go. Can I just quickly... I'm going to call out the Palm Beach Royals social media team for saying that Sophia and Tina were undefeated. Oh, that was ridiculous. I couldn't believe it. I saw that.

[01:36:18] Yeah, I mean, I like everyone on the Royals. I've actually had some good interactions with their social media team as well. But, like, whatever they were, it was, like, 23 and 3. Like, that's still super impressive. Like, you don't have to go and be like, yeah, we're undefeated. Like, you're 18 and 0 in your last 18 matches. There's a term we use for that. It's called a win streak. Win streak. You can say 18 match win streak. Like, don't go and, you know, twist it so that it seems like you're Georgia Johnson and Anneli Waters prior to the midseason tournament.

[01:36:48] So, my question is, do you think that that was intentional from somebody who's just trying to, like, slide one in there? Or is it from, like, a social media manager who just doesn't know ball and they're like, oh, undefeated because we've won 17 in a row? And it's an honest... It happened more than once. It also appeared in an Instagram caption on Sofia's Instagram. Oh, wow. And you know, you know if you're undefeated. She loves to put... Oh, my God. Okay. It's just Sofia's fault.

[01:37:15] Well, she did put the team on her back against us. So... She did. Interesting interview. Yeah. Oh, I did hear that. Yeah. I did. Can you clip that, Zane? What did she say? She said she had to put the team on her back. Oh, really? Yes. Yeah. She totally put the team on her back after losing women's and mixed. But she did clinch against Jamie. She put the team on her back for one point.

[01:37:47] Friend of the pod. I didn't know. I did not know she lost women's and mixed. That's wild. I think... I think the tone that she said it in... You guys just sent you down. It was a weird tone. That's going to be... God. It's... In the playoffs... It's a... It's a target-rich environment for the peak shit talk ability. Like, there's content there. There's content there.

[01:38:14] I'm going to be warming up my mouth just as much as I'm going to be warming up my strokes. Well, you do both a lot. Should we do Guess My Duper? Yes, you guess my duper. I still think we need to do a draft, Zane. Let's do a draft. All right. Guess My Duper. Here we go. Start there. Then we'll do a draft. Then we piece out. Is this guy... Is this singles duper? All right, singles again. All right. They already move 10 times better than I do.

[01:38:43] You know, I still think I could score a point on John Lucian going, so... Why does this guy kind of look like John Lucian going? I thought that's why I said it. I was like, yeah. It's like his chest mentor. It's the way he holds his paddle on the stroke. They have the same legs. They're both white. All right. And his ability. Oh, that's a... I mean...

[01:39:12] Is the other guy just painting lines repeatedly, or what's happening here? Oh. He's long. He missed another... I do appreciate that... He should have known that was going there. I like that this isn't just like a highlight reel from this guy. He showed like a few points that he actually lost. Man, I just don't see the strokes for elite singles play. I'm going to go 3.94 singles duper.

[01:39:43] That's nuts. That's way low, I think. I'm going to go 4-4. 4-4? 4-4. I'm going to go 4.15. Yeah, split the middle. Good call. I think Zoe's probably right. Now that I think about it, I regret myself. Oh, shit. 4-4. Dude, you're... Oh my god. You are totally... You're cheating. No, that's doubles though. Oh, that's doubles. Oh, no. You're still in a game. Damn it. I was thinking about his doubles duper.

[01:40:13] No, I wasn't. Wait, so me and... Me and Zoe were both pretty close. We were pretty close. Zoe's a little closer than me. Zoe was close. Pretty good. Yeah. I was off by 0.3. You're off by 0.2. Zoe's basically nail on the head. Damn it. Wow. I thought I got another one. All right, well... How good did that feel though when you thought you got it right? Oh my... I got the last one right incredibly. So I was about to be on a two-win streak. No, Zoe. Last week was actually crazy. He hit the nail on the head and then somehow threw in a comment like,

[01:40:42] I bet you this guy's 37. And we pull up the account and he's got the exact duper and the exact age of this guy. Oh, that's awesome. It was an all-time guess my duper. And then here was the last part about it was, I'm like, this guy looks like... Because he was playing against two women players. And I was like, oh, it kind of looks like when you have a pro or a really high-level woman invite you for almost like a pity game because they're the best guys that they can find. And then producer JB is like, take a look again. And it's Kate Fahey and Brooke Buckner. I was like, oh my gosh. I called it. It was pro women.

[01:41:11] We didn't even realize who it was. Got the age and got the duper by a tenth of a point. So still riding high. Well, congrats. Yeah, that sounds like a big day for you guys. It was big. And that piled on with the draft, the sports movie draft that we had and absolutely wiped the floor with Zan. I think I'm like on a five draft win streak. Probably having lost since the last time we were on. Well, I'm glad that... How did your Hunger Games team end up doing murder-suicides about two minutes in or what? Yeah, my team hung themselves.

[01:41:40] They just ate the poison berries. The AI simulations were not as strong for them. All right. So to wrap this, as we mentioned, we will do Playoff Megapod Part 2 later in the week. But we got two options here. We can either do another movie draft like we did last week or we can do a... With Disney movies in honor of MLP Orlando. Or we can do Disney character MLP team. Zoe, I'll let you choose.

[01:42:08] I'm not super good with Disney, but let's do Disney character. Disney character. Oh, shit. Are you looking to do Disney movies? Siri, open chat GPT. Are we supposed to pick like four Disney movies that we like? Yeah, last time we just drafted like a top six sports movies. Oh, okay. Yeah, let's do Disney movies. Disney movies, okay. We each picked six. Let's do four. We can pick four. Four. Now, here's the question. That's so many. Set the rules.

[01:42:38] Disney... Does Disney include Marvel? Does Disney include Pixar? I'm assuming it has to include Pixar, but do we include Marvel? Yeah, Pixar, no Marvel. No Marvel. Zayn already cheated with Marvel, wanted the Hulk to be his partner or something. I forget, but... Dude, I do not know ball. I'm cooked in this one. Let's see. I'm going to give it Chachi's best draft. I am drafting with AI here. All right, Zoe, you want to go for Michael first? Um, yeah. Okay. Do you want to do the intro?

[01:43:09] Oh, Zayn, why don't you... You want to... Zayn, you do the intro. I don't even know what I'm talking about. So you got to do the intro. All right. In Haunted, Van L.P. Orlando, we're going to draft Disney movies. The top Disney movies, they can be Disney, they can be Pixar, they cannot be Marvel. That's bullshit. That's cheating. Sorry, Zayn. Each person is going to get one pick. We will have teams of four. Best movies win. After this, you guys rank. You guys decide who wins and see if I'm still on a win streak after this. Zoe, would you like the first pick? Yeah, sure.

[01:43:41] Um, I'm going to go with Up. Is that a Disney movie? Up is Pixar, so that counts. Okay, yeah, I want Up. I mean, I'm going to go... Wait, okay. Are there multiple? Like, do I get... If I go Toy Story, do I get the entire Toy Story series? Fuck it. Toy Story. No, you do not get the entire Toy Story series. Toy Story. Toy Story. Your pick, Nico. Toy Story. I get Toy Story. Fuck you. Okay. Toy Story 1 for Zayn. All right.

[01:44:12] With my... Oh my gosh. Zayn took the pick that I wanted. That's a good pick. Um, and I might eventually pull a serial draft and pick one of the other Toy Stories. But for now, I'm taking, I think, the greatest Disney movie of all time. Give me The Lion King. Yeah. It's kind of the OG, the original. Yep. Um, I want... I want Despicable Me. Ooh. Despicable Me is not a Disney movie, so... It's not? It's not. It's not.

[01:44:42] It's just DreamWorks. Is it that... I didn't know that's Disney. No, I was just at Universal and they had a Despicable Me section. Yeah, Universal is not Disney. Oh my God. Even I knew that! Oh my God. That's fantastic. I was just... This is not my... I'm not an expert in this field. Um, you know what? Fuck it. Give me a Bugs Life. Oh, that's a great one. And Nico, if you say that that's not Disney, we're going to let it slide. That's a phenomenal one. No, that's Pixar. It's Pixar. I remember... It's a Pixar movie.

[01:45:12] It's such a good one. I probably watched that thing like 20 times when I was a kid. I don't know how you guys know this, but also just thoughts and like pray for me. I'm going to pick Finding Nemo. No idea whether that's Disney or not, but... That is Disney. I don't know. It is. Good job. Good job. Um, all right. I am going to take... Give me The Incredibles. I love it. Oh, nice. I like that one. The Incredibles was good. But The Incredibles 2 was better.

[01:45:42] Ooh, I don't know about that. That's insane. Everybody knows that. Everyone knows what? The Incredibles 2 is better in a way. Yeah. I don't... Didn't they come out like pretty far away from each other? Like Incredibles came out like 10 years ago and then Incredibles 2 came out like two years ago? Or maybe... It's like... Yeah. I don't remember watching The Incredibles, but I remember watching The Incredibles 2. Anyway, I don't want that on my movie. I want Beauty and the Beast. That's a good call. That's a good point. That's a solid one.

[01:46:12] Um... Give me Aladdin for obvious reasons. Okay. All right. Aladdin for Zane. Um... All right. I am going to the well. I'm going Toy Story here. I can't help myself. Fuck you, Zane. I love it. Give me the best... Give me the best Toy Story movie. Give me Toy Story 3. Best bad guy. Heartwrenching. Heartwrenching ending. When they almost accept their death and they're going to... In the incinerator.

[01:46:42] That movie is goaded. Toy Story 3. Well, I haven't seen it. So thanks for spoiling it. Yeah, it's messed up. Oh, my bad. I don't even know another one. What's the one with Mulan? Is it called Mulan? It's called Mulan. I want Mulan. Yeah. I'm struggling now. I love her. I mean...

[01:47:11] I don't know. Just give me something like... Cinderella. Give me Cinderella. All right. Zane sold this draft. All right. This has been a draft where you know one of these people has four kids. No. I am going to take... There's a lot of choices here for my last pick. I'm going to go with my future Halloween costume for this year. Give me Monsters, Inc. Oh, yeah.

[01:47:39] What are some of the other popular Disney animated movies? Uh... Peter Pan. Little Mermaid. Uh... Pocahontas. Little Mermaid. Um... You know which one we missed? It was Tarzan. Tarzan. I want Tarzan. I want Tarzan instead of Cinderella. Give me Tarzan instead of Cinderella. Are you immediately doing... For obvious reasons. No. Aladdin was for obvious reasons.

[01:48:07] I thought Mulan would be for your obvious reason. I am honestly a little ambiguous here. So I'm not sure. Pocahontas. So... Cocohontas. Cocohontas. Okay. Which one's for your obvious reasons, Nico? I didn't... I didn't... I was going to choose Encanto. I was going to choose Cocohontas. I didn't do it. This is crazy. I mean, this is like... This is like... Us doing... This would be like getting two of our random friends to do a pickleball draft with us, Zoe. Like, we just don't know this ball.

[01:48:37] Yeah, this is not fair. Sorry, I'm not watching Disney movies with my time anymore. Ugh. You should. Unbelievable. Anyway. All right, well, I want another one. We can just... We don't even have to put the poll out, guys. But if you'd like to vote for any of these teams, you can. Hold on. With Toy Story and Finding Nemo, I think I cooked. You did pretty good. And then you picked Cinderella. I'm not confident. No, no, no. But I think I did well considering the knowledge that I had. I was the MVP.

[01:49:09] All right. All right. Well, Zoe, anything else we should look forward to from you? Are you going to come join us on the pod more often? You're just an elite hang. Yeah. I'm happy to come on the pod anytime. Follow me on Twitter, ZoeWile66. Follow me on Instagram, Zoe underscore Wile. I'm moving to Austin soon, so maybe Zane and I will hang out IRL. We do a Discord meetup. Cool. Yeah. Other than that, just going to enjoy some time.

[01:49:39] Time off. Going to watch a lot of Pickle. Definitely going to be speaking my mind via Twitter. I'll see what I can come up with. Super excited to watch the playoffs. Would have loved to play in them, but if you can't play, you might as well watch. Zoe, I'm trying to peer pressure Zane right now. I said we should do a live pod after Zane's win or loss sometime in this weekend. You down for a live pod? I could live pod after Zane beats Sophia Seving.

[01:50:08] After he puts the team on his back from the bench? Yeah. After he's like, yeah, Elsie, get in here. You're welcome, Elsie. I fucking carried your ass. Let's go. No matter what, Zane, you're going to be on the post-match interview. That's what I want to see. They don't want to interview Elsie. That's for sure. I don't understand why. But all right. Live pod maybe this week. Maybe a preview pod. We got a lot of promises here. Yeah. Well, anyway, follow us to find out if we deliver on those promises. Pickle pod.

[01:50:38] I tell you. All right. Pickle pod.