177. Thoughts on the new Joola Power FX, Sens Atra, & What Makes a Good Indoor Facility?

[00:00:03] All right, what's up guys? We are back with another podcast episode. This week we're going to be talking about a handful of paddles. We managed to get the Joola FX early. I actually have a funny story about that. Going to be talking about the Spartus Spitfire now that I've played some more games on it and some other paddles that you probably haven't really heard of. One from a company called Sens and then Indoor Facilities. But the first question I want to ask because we're going to talk about this in the kitchen and I want to see what you guys have to say is my question is what is the first paddles?

[00:00:30] What makes an indoor facility like ideal or good for you? Like what are some either make or breaks like something that you're like I'm absolutely not going here if a facility does this or what are things that you're like oh if a facility does this really well I'm going to be there all the time because we're going to talk a lot about indoor facilities because there's just been a lot of chatter online about franchises and also I'm pretty sure Minnesota has like I'd be shocked if another state has more indoor facilities than we do. I have some of the most for sure. Like if we're not number one we're in the top three. Yeah.

[00:01:00] Like no doubt. So we're going to talk about that because I feel like we have a lot of experience with just different indoor facilities. All right let's kick this thing off though. So this was between the pod last week and this week. So I'm you know on YouTube and I was watching some of my old videos and one of my videos from this year popped up in the sidebar and that was about you know how do you choose a paddle the right paddle for you.

[00:01:24] And so it had an abnormal amount of views for me. It was like well over a hundred thousand. So I was like oh let me just go see what the top comment is like I'm just kind of curious maybe there was a question that we could use for a podcast or something. So I click on it and the top comment just says something along the lines of has anyone ever told you that you look like the B from the B movie and there's like 20 30 upvotes or something on this comment and I just I looked and I was like did I just read that right.

[00:01:50] Like what does this have to do with anything about buying a pickleball paddle and there's all these people under the comments like dude you look he does look like the B from the B movie. I've thought this forever. And so then I post this on Instagram and I start I do a poll and it's like 90 percent of people like bro you look like the B from the B movie. I had never thought about it but then once I saw it I was like yeah. And then so I started I'll even do it for the pod we'll we'll put some B roll I started overlaying my face with the B and then fading between them and I was like dang it I look like this B.

[00:02:20] You do it that's the funny part is you really do. I just I could not believe it so then my wife and I actually even just watched the B movie again just to just for the memes. Look man if I have to be compared to whatever that one actor was and then there's some other cartoon character that people thought I looked like it's it's now your turn. Dude but the B it's just such a random one of an animated B. The B movie is goaded. Okay. It's actually kind of a weird movie. You should be honored. It's a really weird movie.

[00:02:50] We watched it again and there were so many things that I was like can you I don't think you could say that. Watching it as a kid versus watching it as an adult now. Very funny. I feel like there's a lot of small things that you pick up on you're like this is a kid's movie. That was kind of I don't know just kind of weird. Yep. But anyways yeah I just thought that was kind of funny and there will be probably some memes on the channel in the future. So keep your eyes peeled for those. You'll you'll know when you see they will be unmistakable. It's so funny.

[00:03:18] All right next thing we have to talk about so this one's pretty exciting. The Loco 2 pre-orders are going to be up on October 1st I believe. And this they're you know working on a long lasting grit which they did say is not infinite grit. Let's go. We all know that one's not that great at this point. So hopefully it's good. Obviously we're going to have to wait to actually see because we've seen this enough times now where you know saying you have a long lasting grit does not actually mean you have a long lasting grit. Yep.

[00:03:46] So hopefully the homework's been done there. But if it is good that I feel like that is all the Loco probably needed to be. I feel like it was already still good paddle but you know with all the durable grit paddles I feel like the Loco lost its steam. But I don't think it needed something new to make it outside of grit better in today's market. It was already powerful. It was already had a great sweet spot. Relatively easy to control for a power paddle that I'm not going to say like oh my gosh. Wasn't crazy heavy.

[00:04:16] Yeah. Came in all three shapes. Yeah it was just super ideal. So if you can put a like tier one style grit on it that's all it needs. Like I saw comments online on their Instagram post and people being like man at least update the tech. And I'm like for why? What do you want? What more do you want? It was already a good paddle. Like what do you need it to do? Like at that point the only thing I would say is you have almost like different models of it like you know. And you probably knowing bread and butter they wouldn't call it a Loco.

[00:04:45] But you'd have like the all core version the power version and maybe a control version but I doubt you really need that. And that's about all you'd need. You know you could do like a softer all court version and then you keep the Loco how it was. So to me all I needed was the grit. Yeah. I don't think it needed more. But I have a big bone to pick. Well before you get into that I will say big bonus is going to be UPA approved now. Yeah. The dual certified that's nice for you. That's going to be a big. I've been begging for that.

[00:05:14] That actually makes me so happy. I'd be curious you know with the grit. Let's just assume it's good for a minute here. If that ends up it which you'll like more between the Loco and the Aura Pro just because you've been pretty high on the Aura Pro. Do you really like the Aura Pro? And neither of them as you've liked the Aura Pro have had a durable grit. So it's not like you were choosing because of durable grit and neither were UPA certified. So I'll be curious to see what you end up liking more. Same. Well is Friday getting a Aura Pro UPA approved? I have no idea.

[00:05:44] If they are I haven't heard anything about it. You better get on that. Yeah seriously. Obviously. All right but you have a bone to pick. Oh I have a big bone to pick. Big bone to pick. So if anyone recalls when Selkirk bought bread and butter you know there was all this doom and gloom and everyone's like oh bread and butter is going to go under. They're just going to can him and I was like I really don't think that's going to happen because Doug was still staying in. He wasn't just like getting pushed out of the company. Yep. So I was like okay this is still going to be good. Well I go pull up the pre-order page and I'm like let's see what's on here.

[00:06:13] Let's see what the paddle looks like yada yada yada. Do you know what I see on that page? Selkirk killed bread and butter. They're done. They I guess they said oh we got a paddle of the year award last year. We don't need it this year. The only two paddles you can pre-order hybrid and elongated. No wide body? No signs of a wide body even going to exist? Even though I don't use a wide body and I typically don't recommend it for a lot of people. It is a weird choice.

[00:06:42] I will say that is odd. Especially knowing Selkirk with the boomstick wide they skipped the hybrid because they thought it was too similar to either shape. Right. So then you go elongated hybrid. Yeah. What the crap is this? Really I seriously I don't understand. Their watch. Their decision. They're forgetting. Even if it's tier zero above tier one. In fact it gains spin. It goes over 3,000. No wide body garbage. Right. You better be careful. People might think you're serious. I'm not being serious.

[00:07:12] But yeah I don't I would love to know what the like conversation behind that was on why they would get rid of the wide body. Yeah it doesn't I mean I know look even as someone who loves wide bodies I know it is the least popular shape in pickleball. Like I know elongated is currently the reigning king. And I'm sure hybrid is probably not far behind. You know I feel like hybrid in the last little bit of time has really gained in popularity. Because I feel like you're you know you're gaining.

[00:07:39] Well I feel like it was always it's always been elongated on top as it should be. But then I always felt like it was wide body next and then hybrid kind of like became really popular and kind of took over that spot. Yeah. But there's still plenty of people using wide bodies and I feel like it's getting more popular now. Yeah. With I mean not that really Colin is pushing a shape but like yeah people are buying a wide body because of Colin but Colin and a bright a lot of the women use wide bodies.

[00:08:08] I don't know I feel like strange choice. Yeah. I find that odd. Who knows maybe it's going to come at a later date. But when I saw that I was just like all right. Like they killed him. They killed him. This company was great. They're dead now. Obviously jokes aside. But yeah it's I just thought that was really confused. I think I find that to be interesting.

[00:08:30] I mean I guess trying to think if other companies have really gone that route like I guess if you think of maybe a Honolulu you know they almost always lead with the J2 shape or sometimes they lead with the J6 shape and then they have the J3 which is their wide body. But Honolulu's wide body has also always been kind of whack like it's a really long handle. I just feel like their shape is not a good wide body. Yeah. So I feel like no one is ever buying that wide body. But I don't know.

[00:08:58] I hope it shows up that one interesting thing I just thought about is now with Selkirk owning bread and butter. Selkirk has their own factory right. I don't know that it's dedicated to only them. Gotcha. Well OK. I guess I don't know this for sure either. Were they manufactured bread and butter and Selkirk in different factories because if they were and Selkirk shifts the manufacturing.

[00:09:28] For bread and butter over to that factory and they ruined the handle and the butt cap of that paddle I will not use it. There is 0% chance that if the butt cap of the Loco or Edgeguard ends up being anything like the Boomstick or those paddles forget about it. You're right. If that happens then they will have ruined bread and butter. Oh my gosh. That will be the deciding factor. The two things no one listening to this podcast cares about.

[00:09:56] They're like Chris we don't care about wide bodies and we don't care about the butt cap. People are going to be like you know what they made it better. Hey handles matter. People care about the handle. Look I'm on your side. The two paddles we're going to talk about in a second have issues with handles. I would agree with you. Yeah that I'm very curious to see if it's going to stay in the original factory which I imagine it would but if it changes I'll be pissed. Yeah well we'll see.

[00:10:22] But they are adding the like only things that in my opinion it was missing and matter. The durable grit and the certification. Yeah. It doesn't need anything more. It was already such a good paddle. I agree. I agree. I like the Aura Pro a ton but if you told me to go to a tournament I had to use a Loco. Loco no complaints for me. Yeah. I think it's great. Completely agree. I mean even when I used the Loco again for the Nerdy Tourney I had like no issues going back to it. It was very easy to pick back up. And I hadn't used it in a minute because I'd been reviewing so many other paddles.

[00:10:52] Okay before we dive into our paddle topics one we you know well I'm going to say you because I'm not a disc golfer. You missed one very obvious example of touching equipment and immediately hating it. I can't believe I didn't think about that. That was so insane because I've no one probably knows because I've never talked about it. But I've been disc golfing since I was probably like eight years old and I love disc golf. And Minnesota is one of like the greatest states in the country for disc golf.

[00:11:20] So and let me rewind a little bit just for those of you who don't remember or didn't see last week. Last week we were talking about what other sport do people immediately like touch the equipment in pickleball. They touch the grit and they go oh I don't want it regardless of anything else about the paddle. They touch and go oh it's too smooth I don't want it and I said I can't think of anything else like that. And people in the comments were like oh disc golf is just like this. And as soon as I saw those I was like Isaac should have known this has been disc golfing forever. Yeah that's true. I definitely should have known that. That was a really good one. And another good one people said was basketball.

[00:11:50] People had different basketballs have different textures and you know you can feel different basketball and it would be weird. I don't play a lot but I just know that people can be picky about that. So that was another good one too but disc golf for sure people will just touch certain plastics and be like nope don't want this. That's so interesting. I mean I can almost see that because if I really think back to speed cubing it was similar when you would turn a cube. You know similar to how there's like stiff hollow soft dense in this.

[00:12:18] There was very similar things in speed cubing about plastic. Yeah. But I don't know that if a cube was like good enough in other aspects people could kind of get over it. I don't know. The interesting thing about disc golf though is like there can be discs that are the exact same mold. The two identical discs in different plastics but then they fly completely different. So there is a preference in that too. Like they are even though you can have the same type of disc different plastics will be different utilities.

[00:12:45] So there is some nuance to that but definitely people are picky about plastics. But anyways this is not a disc golf podcast. Rewinding I just thought of something. I was just thinking back to the butt cap thing. I'm trying to remember when we visited the Selkirk HQ when they were building paddles in the U.S. Were they applying? I feel like they were applying butt caps on the paddles made overseas in the U.S.

[00:13:13] I don't remember off the top of my head. I think we have footage of it. I know they were for sure of you know the paddles that were strictly made in the U.S. But I could have sworn that there were paddles coming from overseas that did not have the butt cap on it right away. So I think you're right because they did have me hold and test a handle with like a prototype butt cap. Yeah. That they were messing around with. And what's interesting is it's almost less about the butt cap I think with Selkirk and more about the overgrip and how they apply it.

[00:13:42] The way they wrap the overgrip like disforms part of the butt cap and adds a weird bump that I just don't like. So it's not like it's completely terrible. It's fixable but it's not ideal either. Yeah. The only reason I thought of all this is I was like well unless all those locos are going back to Selkirk HQ to have butt caps applied. Maybe it won't matter if they were made in the same factory or not. Yeah. Right. Right. So I don't know. I just completely random thought.

[00:14:10] I really think that that's probably like the most far fetched thing. Like I highly doubt that that would ever even happen but whatever. Yeah. All right. Let's talk about the Yola FX. So we got this early. By the time you're hearing this the paddle is out but I managed to get this. October 1st? No. The 30th. It was the 30th. That's the day this pod comes out. So it's actually kind of perfect timing. We can talk about it right as it comes out. Yeah. But I have to tell the story. So it was the weekend out and about with the wife. We were just kind of looking for stuff to do on the weekend.

[00:14:39] You know I just didn't want to sit in the house all day. So we go to a mall and then you know Shields is there. The greatest store on planet earth. I'm not going to lie. Shields is a pretty great store. Not every state has a Shields. But for the lucky ones that do and that have gone you know the greatness of Shields. Yeah. It's pretty nice in there. So I just jokingly said while we were walking around the store we're just kind of looking at some clothes. I was like how funny would it be if they had the new Yola FX. I was like there's no way. I was like they couldn't possibly make that mistake.

[00:15:09] But I was like let's just go look. And so we go upstairs and look at the paddle shelf and I immediately see it. And I was like there's no way. I was like that's got to be like locked to the thing. There's no way they're selling that. Nope. Just pop it right off the thing. And I was like I'm like looking at it like is this actually in my hand right now? I was like there's no. And then I buy two of them right and one for me one for you. And I'm going to check out. I'm like there's no way they're going to let me check out. Anything's going to get flagged or something. Yeah I was like oh this is a mistake. It's not this isn't out yet. Nope. Just let me check out right with it.

[00:15:38] So I got it like three four days early which I just thought was fun. I was like oh how did that happen? That is hilarious. Because that was definitely not supposed to happen. I even got a message later that was like where'd you get that? And they're like that's that that was a mistake. You got Shields in trouble. Yeah. Shields someone some some person some backstore employees getting in trouble. So okay obviously most of you guys probably know a lot of the details about the FX. They've you know slowly been releasing stuff but in case you don't it's $180.

[00:16:07] It is their first foam paddle. It's using a you know their propulsion core style foam. It's not a full floating ring. And then it does have more aggressive grit. It's not going to be in the realm of a 11 624 hex grit or six zeros diamond tough. It's not that rough but measured on my stare. This is about 30 to 40 percent more rough. And if you touch it though you can definitely tell it is rougher than a regular Yola.

[00:16:37] Oh yeah. But it's not you know giga rough. People who are used to some other paddles would probably still feel something like it's yeah it's not like the the Honolulu's. Yeah. But as we've talked about like roughness is not everything. So honestly that is probably going to be one of the biggest things I think at some point depending on how all this grit stuff shakes out is convincing normal people that there are actually paddles that are rougher and get worse spin. Yeah.

[00:17:04] Like I'm wondering at what point people will stop going like this and be like oh that doesn't actually mean much. I'd love for a day where people get to that point. Yes. So okay. Let's just go over a handful of things. But do we let's go over the main stuff. Let's go over the stuff people actually care about before we get to the stuff people don't care about because there's a couple of things that people actually I mean they might care about but let's go over the big hitters first. So first of all this is only in a Perseus shape right now.

[00:17:32] So if you're only an elongated player that's great for you. If you play other shapes this does not come in all of their pro line shape that they normally have. So just keep that in mind. I I'll go over my thoughts first and then we'll go over yours. So I get home and you know I immediately just bounce a ball on the paddle. I had in that moment never felt a foam paddle that is stiffer than this. Yeah.

[00:17:59] Like boomstick probably one of the stiffest most hollow paddles Friday or a pros up there. The loco very stiff and hollow puts them to shame. But it's so stiff and very loud. Just rigid. Yes extremely rigid. I would love to know what the base layup is because to me it feels like if you made a foam paddle but every face layer was fiberglass.

[00:18:29] Like it just feels so rigid. The best comparison I've come up with in my mind I haven't hit them side by side but it's like the Gen 1 Paddle Techs. But even that I feel like isn't enough. I feel like it's like you know above that. But I'm thinking if you come like for some reason if you're still today using a Gen 1 Paddle Tech this would probably be the easiest foam paddle to transition to. Maybe. I still feel like they're pretty different but maybe I need to hit a paddle tech. I mean going from Gen 1 to foam.

[00:18:59] Yeah. It's always going to be very very different. Yeah. So my initial impression bouncing a ball on it I was like I'm going to hate this thing. I was like this is I was like all the comments of people saying oh Yola is purposely going to make a bad foam paddle to make their pro line look better. I was like yep that's what they did. And this is why I think it's very important for people to not base like actual impressions of a paddle from just bouncing a ball on it because that impression I was like oh this is going to be so bad.

[00:19:26] When we actually started playing with it I think I was I kept slowly warming up to it. Initially I was still like it's really stiff. I don't know if I love how that feels but then the further we got through the session the more I was like okay I think the performance of this paddle is good. I think if someone like look you take any 5-0 you take any 5-5 and they showed up to a tournament with this paddle I would never think oh using an FX like bro come on you can use

[00:19:55] anything else. Like I think it I think it hits hard. It's not you know the hardest hitting paddle out there but plenty of power counters are very crisp off it like they come back pretty hot. Spin is plenty good on the paddle didn't have any issues shaping the ball and I think for people who are into Yola's paddles if you are looking for something that's going to shape the ball I do think this is probably going to do it the best of any in their line right now. So I think that's a pro.

[00:20:21] And then the more I kept playing with it the I guess how stiff and rigid it was wasn't bothering me as much. I still think it's going to be a very polarizing paddle because I feel like it's very different from the other foam paddles on the market right now. Super yeah. So I think if you're expecting it to play like other ones you've hit you're probably going to want to erase that from your brain. So you're either probably going to really love this or really hate it. Like imagine going from like an Inferno to this.

[00:20:50] Oh this probably for foams it probably is. They're quite literally opposite sides of the spectrum. Yeah. As far as it could possibly be. For foam. Yes for foam specifically. Yeah. I would agree with that. So yeah I think as I played with it I didn't really have anything super negative to say about it other than that I think it'll be polarizing. And then as far as positives it's like in a very interesting spot which I think is what

[00:21:14] everyone expected which is it wasn't going to dethrone their pro line though I do think there are people like how would I how would I explain this. I don't think the pro 5 is like definitively better. Yeah. I think they're different and different people will appreciate them for different things like people who really want power you're going to go with the FX line but it might be one of those you're going to trade feel for power like I think the pro 5 feels better than the

[00:21:43] FX does. But that's preference right. I was good. I was just going to say like so much of that is just preference. Yeah. Like the better is not really a good term or word for it because like there isn't better doesn't exist when it comes to feel. Yeah. 100%. Yeah. It's interesting. Yeah. So I mean you can talk about it some and then we can kind of riff back and forth. Let me know what your thoughts were on that. Yeah. I agree with pretty much everything you said.

[00:22:10] Super polarizing of all the foam paddles I think is kind of an odd choice to go with that. I mean foam has been around for long enough now in the industry that the market is pretty used to the different the spectrum of foam paddles. But this I feel like falls outside that box. Yeah. I agree. Right. Like there's the collective group of paddles that are very popular and everyone and like people like inside the spectrum of feel and then this falls outside of it and

[00:22:39] it's just so different that I think it will turn a lot of people off from it. I think a lot of people hit a couple balls and just be like not for me which let me just say way too many people do that. Yeah. Like they'll play a game or not even a full game with a paddle and be like yep not for me. Yeah. You know you got to play at least like a whole day to like a week just give it some time with paddles. Change weight setups stuff changes a lot. Weight can make a huge difference. Weight makes a huge especially with foam paddles. Yeah. Massive difference.

[00:23:10] So yeah I agree everything you said. Powerful. Super poppy. Like very very poppy. At the kitchen easy to pop the ball up with dinking. Drops really didn't have to put anything into it. Just hold the paddle there and it launches the ball. It is a very the type I would describe it is not a paddle to me where you really get a sensation of like the ball sinking in. It's like a hit it and get off the face as fast as humanly possible. Yeah.

[00:23:38] It's that like the way I describe it is like quick response slow response. Yeah. Like Inferno very slow response. Feels like it really sinks in and then shoots off. This is it touches the paddle and it's gone. Yeah. Drives felt really good. I like driving the ball with it. It was I mean fun paddle to play with but and I had no issues getting used to the feel but always in the back of my mind I was like this just feels so different from everything. Probably go away if I used it for a few weeks but.

[00:24:08] I also do want to see so we oh I guess I forgot to say this when we were talking specs. The only spec that probably really matters to people is the swing weight. So the unit that I am using stock was 118. The one that Isaac was swinging was 114 and he did have a weight set up on it that he tried yesterday. He did it was half gram tungsten tape. He did two small strips in the top corners and then longer strips in the bottom corners and we both felt like at least for me it felt a tiny bit more stable but it really didn't change the feel much.

[00:24:37] I don't really we only had half gram. Yeah. I don't really like or use half gram that much. I prefer one as well. I would I would prefer one for sure but it's funny like we got the wrong units for each other. You should have had the 114. I should have started with the 118. Yeah totally. So yeah but again I think this is going to be really good paddle. If you told me buying with your own money going to a tournament you there spend 300 plus

[00:25:03] dollars after tax on a pro five or 109 like 200 bucks after tax for this. I'm buying this. I would take this over a pro five. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. The only complaints is the handle like thin like thin pallets so it feels just very flat. The bevels are not very defined. That's the problem for me. The bevels on the corners here are just really short.

[00:25:32] I feel like they needed to be flattened more and longer. Yeah. To add more of a almost circular feel like it's just feel the handle feels very flat in my hand and I don't know it's just uncomfortable. Yeah. Let me let me hold it. So the way that I would explain it to for people listening is it's the flat part like if you were holding a paddle you know like you were going to hit a forehand or something.

[00:25:58] The top part of the handle and the bottom just feels very wide because of this having being flatter it just it feels extremely blocky like it kind of feels like you're holding like almost a square or I guess rectangle is the better term here and it's weird because I feel like if I'm recalling like the the pro fives weren't my favorite handles in the world but they're fine.

[00:26:21] So I just wonder I guess I can't understand what the thought behind why their handles end up feeling so different like clearly you'll just kind of had a certain way of doing their handles and people must not be complaining. So maybe it just doesn't matter to the mass market but like I we both picked this up immediately and we're like whoo like I don't really like that handle. So I don't know not my favorite design handle. I just feel like it's very chunky very blocky.

[00:26:51] Yeah I'm gonna have to mess around. I'm gonna doctor it a bit and try and take the over grip off mess around some things and try and fix it but not the end of the world just kind of annoying I guess but everything else about the paddle is good. Spin was fine. Yep. Uh the only thing is oh uh sweet spot felt subpar for foam paddles and extremely jarring on off center shots. Yeah you definitely know when you miss.

[00:27:19] Like yeah very very noticeable on off center shots where something like Friday or a pro loco boomstick those paddles feel less. Less noticeable the difference. Yeah just less jarring. Yeah. On off center uh hits and strikes. You will know you miss on this. Yes. Which for some people you know we know people that like that. That's a pro or a con depending on who you are. There's definitely groups of people that like that I just think it's not as many. Yeah. So I don't know solid paddle I think it's fine.

[00:27:48] Um what I think is interesting so I've heard a lot of different pros you know over maybe like the last six months whether like talking to some of them or just hearing some stuff online or through the grapevine always saying stuff like ah you know I just don't really like foam it's just it's just too stiff it's too rigid. And after hitting something like this I'm like is this what your company's feeding you? Like is this is this why you think foam is so stiff? Because I don't even whenever I hear that now I don't even buy that argument anymore because

[00:28:16] again we have paddles foam paddles that are so far on different ends of the spectrum. Take something like that flick f3 over there. Pretty soft and dense. Take the regular 6-0 coral. Pretty soft and dense. Then you want to go all the other far end. You have this. You have the boomstick. And you know maybe that makes sense amongst pros. Their context of paddles is often going to be what their peers are using which is like a boomstick or maybe prototypes like this.

[00:28:43] And if that is what you think of foam or have seen you're like oh yeah this is really stiff. But to me I guess maybe since we have a bigger picture also Inferno you know that's a pretty far different paddle I'm just like they're not all stiff. Like yes some of them are really stiff just like some Gen 3s are really stiff. Like Canon oh my gosh that thing is so stiff. The Canon I hit one of those not that long ago again and I forgot how stiff that that paddle was. For Gen 3.

[00:29:13] Yep. Crazy. Then you have ones like the Pro 5 much less stiff for a Gen 3 or even like the RPM Pro Friction V2 I feel like that I'd still call it in the the more stiff area but it's very like boingy for a Gen 3. So I don't know it just like Gen 3s can be different. I'm like why are we everyone say like oh foam is so stiff. It's just it's just not. I know. I don't mean it can be. Yeah. Depending on what you hit if whatever your preference is I feel like foam has an option for it now. Yeah.

[00:29:43] Like before foam was early on there was really only a couple choices. Yeah. It didn't fit everybody. Yep. And so yeah there was a lot. Yeah. So there was a lot of people that didn't like foam because of that. Yeah. But now if you like soft and dense if you like even if you like stiff and dense. Yeah. You're a psycho. There's a paddle for you in the foam world. So I feel like there's really not a good excuse to say like oh there isn't a foam paddle that that I like. Yeah. I feel like you could find something. Yeah.

[00:30:11] So I guess to wrap it up I feel like you know with the current amount of play time that we have on this which is probably right around the hour mark I feel like it if I'm comparing it to the rest of the market the rest of the foam market I feel like it does fall short of most of the like elite paddles on the wall. Like if I'm thinking most of the top tier ones on this wall you've got the Loco the Boomstick Aereo Cyclone the Inferno the Friday Aura Pro Enhance MPP Turbo.

[00:30:39] Even if we just take those out of the question and well you mentioned one but like let's just go cheaper foam paddles. I feel like I would take almost all of them over this. Yeah. I would take even going back a little ways. Well maybe not a Quanta. I would take a Turbo. I would take a Spitfire. I would take a V-Soul. All of those paddles over this one. Yeah. So it's one of those ones where I'm like I think there are better options but there

[00:31:08] aren't many that feel like this. So I'm sure there's going to be some people out there who are like dude this is what I've been waiting for. Exactly. So you can't say it's like definitively better. Like I really one of the my like biggest gripes in the industry right now I've talked about this multiple times is when people are like oh X Y and Z paddle is definitively the best. I'm like best for who? Yeah. Yeah. Because what I want and probably what a 3.0 wants and what a Pro wants they're all completely different.

[00:31:34] I love the Aura Pro as I've said many times but I guarantee there are a lot of people out there that would be like this is not it. Yeah. You know just different preferences. Yeah. So I feel like you just need to understand kind of what you like and you know the nice thing about the FX it'll be a very easy paddle for you to go and try. It's probably going to be in every facility. Oh my gosh. It's going to be in most retail stores even like a Pickleball Central where you have like a 30 day return window even if you use it. I believe that's accurate.

[00:32:01] It's probably the nice thing about these bigger brands Selkirk, Yola, blah blah blah is it's way easier to demo those. You can't go somewhere and be like I want to demo a V-Soul. I want to demo a Honolulu paddle. It just doesn't exist. Totally. So you can go find out yourself very easily. Yeah. So I don't know. I think in terms of if you're a person who only plays Yola paddles pretty interesting option if you're someone who's like a paddle nerd you're probably going to be pretty underwhelmed. Yeah.

[00:32:29] But I imagine there's going to be a lot of people who are you know trying to buy their first serious paddle and they'd be looking at like a Selkirk or a Yola. I'd probably push a lot of Yola people towards this if they were trying to choose like do I go up to $300 or do I choose an FX? I'd be I'd probably just tell me to go on FX. Do you do a test at some point amongst different level of players?

[00:32:52] At what point in skill level do you think people really start to be able to one notice and two have a really solid preference on different fields? You give this to 4-0s. Yeah they'll probably have like a preference or notice difference. It's something super different like that. But someone brand new to pickleball 3-0, 3-5 even. If they're new new and they haven't hit a lot of paddles you're going to have very little preference.

[00:33:21] I don't think they would be able to tell you any difference between this and a boomstick other than sound. I think they could. I don't think it would be a you can't tell any difference but I think you would pick up on less things. Yeah. I'm just thinking back when I was early on in a lot of sports I played when I was younger when equipment played a big role. And I don't think I could tell you the difference. Like one good example golf clubs.

[00:33:46] Bro when I first started golfing if you gave me a cavity back beginner club and a tailor made blade I don't think I'd be able to tell you the difference back then. Yeah. But now hitting them I'd definitely be able to know a difference. Yeah. But again like I just I wonder what level do people really start to get a good grasp on differences in paddles. To me I think it's less about the level and probably more how long you've been in pickleball and how many paddles you've hit.

[00:34:13] I do think the the amount of paddles you've hit plays a big role. Yeah. To me that is would be the bigger defining factor. So all right. That's the FX. Let's move on to a company that I'd be willing to bet the vast majority of this audience has never heard of. So sends pickleball. I've known the owner of this company for a long time. He he was doing like a lot of retail shop stuff in the past and now he's he's doing some paddle stuff.

[00:34:40] And initially when I got these I was kind of like I'll get to him when I get to him or whatever. And then I was touching the surface and I started looking at the the sheet of this and I was like OK. We need to look at this a little bit more. So I will leave a link down in the description. These paddles are not going to be out for presale until like October. And if it's a presale at the end of October that means there's a very good chance these are not shipping until like November if I had to guess.

[00:35:07] So usually we we never talk about paddles this early but these were interesting enough that I was like OK I feel like we have to talk about this. Yeah. OK. Presale opens late October. They will be 209 before a discount code. They will be only UPAA certified and that's going to come into discussion here in a minute about some stuff. They have there's only two shapes a wide body and an elongated.

[00:35:34] They are different shapes and like for for their they're not typical shapes like the wide body is very rounded. What does this look like the radius. Yes. Yes. Any radius fanboys out there will probably love this. Yes. Yeah it does. And honestly a lot of you probably don't even know about the Yolo radius which actually they're re-releasing in like two days. I saw that. Which I'll probably buy one of those because it's going to be such a niche paddle but I

[00:36:03] I think it'd get overlooked. I think there'd be some people who would really I bet a lot of people in Asia would love that paddle. I'm sure. Yeah. Yeah. So I definitely got to pick one of those. Wide body definitely a little bit more different just because yeah it's like very radius esque. The elongate is not that like doesn't but I mean is it my most preferred shape. No. It's just like a little odd to the eye but using it I didn't have any complaints. Yeah.

[00:36:28] So it'll have wide body and elongated again unfortunately I don't really know. I should just ask him how he landed on this or why they landed on this. These handles are that the build quality of them is fine. Yeah. Build quality is great but they're just so chunky. I actually think the shape of this is better than the Yola. I agree. I think shape is like ideal. It just needs to be shrunk. Yeah. In circumference and it would be great. It would be such a good handle.

[00:36:57] If you don't have big hands you'll hate this. Yeah. Like a lot of women out there I do not think unless you like bigger handle paddles you would probably hate this. Imagine our one friend. Yeah. Trying to use this. I mean she's like five feet tall. Yeah. She would hate this. She would hate this handle. Yeah. So just know that going in I feel like to me four and one eighth is kind of like the definitive standard at this point. So I don't know how some people keep landing on four and a quarter.

[00:37:27] But you know to each their own. It's all preference but. You can always build up a handle. You can't take material off. Yep. I agree. Easily. Yes. It is a foam paddle EPP core EVA ring. There's some interesting like slits in the like three and nine position. And again I'll leave the website so you guys can go look at it. The build is pretty interesting. It is using like a carbon fiber frame around the entire paddle and then I believe it is a like fully molded handle because of that frame. So that is different from some of the other foam paddles out there.

[00:37:57] And then it does have a longer lasting grit texture. I believe it the website says like a silicon carbide type of grit. And I mean if you touch this this is not like any other long lasting grit on the market right now. Like this is very different. Yes. Very sharp. I mean I said this yesterday like I feel like if I took my knuckles and I just went like this I think I would bleed. In fact I wanted to try that but then I was like I don't know if I want these particles in my hand. Yeah. That's fair.

[00:38:25] This is like almost the opposite design of how like hex grid is. You know like hex grid is like really big. Yeah. But more rounded. Yes. Particles. This is like really tall and really sharp particles. Yes. Yeah. Very very sharp. Very tall. So I'm not going to claim anything about durability right now because we have no idea. I've got them measured but we will have to keep an eye on that.

[00:38:53] And thankfully I mean if these aren't shipping until like November that's a lot of time to do play testing. Yeah. Which is great because that could solve a lot of issues before launch on durability. One really interesting thing before we get into how they play that has nothing to do with performance in my opinion. The concave edge guard. We've seen that before but I don't mind. I think it's kind of cool. But the like the texturing embossed texture on the edge guard is kind of cool. I don't know why. I wonder if Wade will stick to that. Huh? I wonder if Wade will stick to that.

[00:39:22] I can't imagine it won't. Yeah. I'll have to keep an eye on that. But I just think it's kind of unique and cool. I haven't seen that before so. Oh and I forgot to I forgot to say the swing weight on these. So the wide body was 104. The elongated was 112. Super light. And static weights were like 82 I believe. Yeah. So yeah very low swing weights which is also kind of nice. Low balance point. Right. So let's talk about the thing that immediately is what caught my eye. First I touched the grit and I was like well that's really different.

[00:39:49] And then I was like okay well I guess I should grit test these. And then I was like okay I should probably go RPM test these. Spin is banana on these. Like I was doing a batch of paddles when I went to go do these. So I had you know some comparisons of like you know just where things stacked up or whatever. I think I was doing like the Neonic FLX which we'll get to in a minute and some other stuff. As soon as I started hitting these I was like whoa what the.

[00:40:18] Like I hit a serve and immediately looked at the radar gun and was like what was the spin on that. Like that was nuts. Like I've just gotten to the point now where a lot of times visually looking at how my serve shapes gives me a pretty good indicator of what the spin might be. At least good or bad. I couldn't tell you the exact RPM obviously. Yep. But I hit and was like what the frick that was insane. And so I go through my whole testing.

[00:40:42] The average for the elongated was 2532 which was where the Spitfire was which keep in mind I said was insane. And as I've been playing people recently they've also been commenting on the spin of the Spitfire. And then the wide body was 2648. I think when I I'd have to go back and double check but one of these two paddles I don't think I had a single result under 2400. Yeah. Which is insane. Like I'm trying to get people to understand like I do not hit numbers like that often.

[00:41:12] What's really funny is we used the FX for a while yesterday then we hit these for a little bit. Then you went back to the FX and your first serve back with the FX bottom of the net. Yeah. Because like you're just so used to how you could hit the ball with this. The one thing for people when you're when you have paddles that can put this much spin on the ball you like how can I explain this. It's like you're able to hit the ball much more aggressively in a much more aggressive face tilt. Yeah.

[00:41:41] And it's like the ball just comes off higher. And so if you go into another paddle thinking you can do the same thing a lot of times it's going to hit the net because like the launch angle just didn't pull it as high. Like it didn't hit off as high so it's hit a little bit lower. So a lot of times with like high grit or high RPM paddles there's like a small adjustment period. But I mean it's insane even when we started playing games like the first handful of drives you were hitting or even first you started with drops which were all very good. The drops were crazy. And then the drives were also insane. Yeah.

[00:42:11] Like the spin was extremely noticeable. Like if someone was addicted to spin like this and what I've experienced on the Spitfire are nuts. Yep. So if it holds up I mean again none of it matters if the grit fades if it's in three sessions it's going to be 1900 who cares. So we'll have to test that but like initial impression like holy crap that was crazy which is insane.

[00:42:35] I guess how the rest of the paddle played we didn't have one to compare side by side but at least for me I don't know if this is how you felt. My immediate thought was like boomstick. Yep. Very loud. Very poppy. Stiff and hollow. Stiff and hollow. But like in all the best ways. To me it was like a boomstick but with way more spin. Yeah. So. I agree. I think it is very very boomstick like. I don't think it is I mean I have to do them side by side. Power is probably pretty close. Yeah. Maybe goes to the boomstick.

[00:43:06] But not not that different at all. Like I would definitely take some have to take some time to adjust. Plus you don't have weight on it. You don't have weight on this like the MOI weights of the boomstick. This thing's probably crushing the ball. Yeah. I mean it was that poppy without any weight and with how light they are. Yeah. 112 for an elongated is super light. Slap some like MOI style like seven and a half grams on each side. I'm curious what it would do to this paddle. Yeah. I'll have to mess around with that.

[00:43:33] So I mean my early impression of this is very positive. I'm very curious to see how it continues. But could be insane. And at the price 209. That's not that expensive. Like that's you know like a hex grip paddle. But just with way more spin. So I mean it's again and the boomstick is extremely popular. So we'll have to do some more testing side by side to really you know feel that out. There might be a couple nuances where maybe it's less boomstick like. Like I think the shapes at least for the wide body is a little less ideal.

[00:44:03] I really wish they just I don't know like a spitfire shape a scorpio shape. Like I kind of wish it was just more normal. But I could probably get over it. Yeah. I mean these are normal enough where it's it's not like I would never use it. But like think about this. If you go standard shape just you know normal square top elongated regular maybe square top wide body thin the handles down. This this would be so good. Like it's just those small things that I'm like. You like the radius though. Yeah.

[00:44:32] I mean the radius is fun to me. But I don't know if it would be like my ideal tournament shape. Sure. I might be able to get over it if the rest of the paddles good enough. But it's kind of the you know pick your top three things which things are really important to you. And some of those things like the thicker handle I'm really not a big fan of. If I had to change one thing about this it would not be the shape of the face. It would just be the handle. Yeah. If I could just shrink the circumference of this down then I could get over the rest of it. Yeah. I agree.

[00:45:01] I mean with how you play obviously you need more time. But is it a paddle you would consider using for a tournament or is the handle being that big like that much of a deal breaker for you. I think it's that big of a deal breaker for me to be honest. Okay. Like I liked how it played. I'd have to play with weight on it to know for sure. Yeah. But I think that is that is like a non-negotiable for me. Yeah. That's like in your top three for. For sure. Top three handle circumference. Yeah.

[00:45:30] And just handle feel in general. I could maybe get over it. It just I would definitely be frustrated by it. But you know some people probably wouldn't care if you have big hands then you probably don't care. In fact you probably like that because then you don't have to build the grip up. Yeah. I think my top three is spin handle shape. I can get over feel like I can use something. That was only to spin handle shape handle and shape. Oh and shape. I see. Yeah. I got it. Got it. Those are my top three like non-negotiables. Everything else I can deal with.

[00:46:00] If it's stiff and hollow if it's soft and hollow soft and dense I can use any of those. Okay. Got it. Yeah. So I mean initial impression very positive. We'll keep you guys posted. I'm glad there's ample time to get some testing on because it feels like these days I mean one just with how far behind we are it feels like it's impossible to keep up right now. I know. So I appreciate when things are early. Yep. Oh I am curious though. I will ask a question to the audience. Okay.

[00:46:29] What camp do you fall in? Because I just want to know like percentage wise where what's popular and what's the least popular in feel. What do you prefer? Stiff and dense. Or well. No one likes stiff and dense. Hey you don't know. You don't know. But like all the different feels. Stiff and hollow. Soft and dense. Soft and dense. Soft hollow. Yeah. Like where do you fall? I just want to know. I'm curious what's most popular. And like because I feel like a lot of companies lean towards stiff and hollow.

[00:46:58] I feel like some of that is one with the stiff and hollow. They're often louder which you know perceived perception of how powerful paddle is going to go up with that. Yep. I also think with stiff and hollow just because of how the ball rebounds also gives people the perception of well I think there's probably perception and it is some reality that it is just quicker. Mm-hmm. My hunch would probably be somewhere closer to like soft and dense if you just like I bet if you went to a park and handed people a lot of different paddles I feel like something maybe even soft and hollow.

[00:47:27] Are you saying like what's being purchased and being used or are we talking about what's being manufactured? Those I think are two different camps. Well I think what people if you gave them the option I feel like closer to soft and dense more people would choose. Nope. Than the other feels but that is not as widely available as stiff and hollow. Yes because I feel like stiff and hollow is being pushed more but I agree that majority of people would probably fall more towards the soft and dense.

[00:47:54] I feel like that is often a more pleasant feeling when you are playing but stiff and hollow there's a lot of like different perception things whether it's sound or feel that makes people feel like it's really fast and people do like that. Because think about a lot of the soft and dense paddles or something close to that territory usually people go oh this doesn't hit as hard. Take a Paddle Tech Honey Foam people be like oh this doesn't hit as hard. Take a original 6-0 Coral well it doesn't hit as hard. It's all the stiff and hollow ones usually that people are like oh that that hits hard.

[00:48:24] For sure. Yeah. So okay let's talk about the Spitfire. I just want to talk about some updates. So first of all I just mentioned it a bit ago that people were talking about the spin. So I went to a like open play king of the court thing at one of our facilities which I had never been to before. The person who mentioned that in the comments big shout out to you because that was actually a ton of fun and I will probably be doing that more. So a lot of people that I do not normally play with.

[00:48:52] I had my partner basically how it was structured was there was an open play and then three courts dedicated for like a king of the court. You move up you move down depending on your win loss and you could play with the same partner the entire time. So a lot of people I'm not used to playing with and I swear like every game someone was like dude what is that paddle like the spin is insane. And I that doesn't normally happen. Usually the comments I'll get is that's really loud or that's really powerful you know that dang that thing is so hot. Spin is not something I ever get comments on.

[00:49:22] And so it was very odd going court to court people being like dude like balls are like at my face and they're dropping at the baseline. And even looking at some of my footage back I was like dang like some of these were dropping a lot which is kind of crazy. Maybe you're just getting a little better. Could be maybe I'm just getting better. Maybe it's not even the paddle. Maybe I'm just better. You're graduating. But yeah a lot of people were commenting on that. So the spin has been very good. I'm at I'm almost halfway through the grit testing.

[00:49:48] I'm at about 43 games equivalent and I have a tournament this weekend. So hopefully I can knock out a bunch more games as well. But yeah a lot of people commenting about the spin and then I want to talk about the weight setup. So I did add a Hesse core and then originally if you're looking at the video I had the half gram running from the bottom right here all the way up to almost where the next top. Corner starts and this is one gram per inch the paddle weighed about like 8.6 ounces.

[00:50:16] So when this paddle had no weight I had no issues using it you know hit hard enough but it wasn't like crazy. When I added that weight setup oh my gosh this thing just obliterated the ball like it was too much. I actually didn't like it. I was playing through that open play. Well first we played the day before some games with some people. Yep. And I was noticing oh man this is just like too hot. Like I'm having a hard time resetting. My returns were going way long. But I was like I'll give it some more time because maybe it's just me adjusting.

[00:50:45] And then the next day I sailed so many returns long and I was like trying to baby my returns. And I was like I can't do this anymore. You definitely had an issue with returns. So I cut off two inches of weight which I wouldn't have thought would make that big of a difference. Solved all my issues. Every issue went away still pretty powerful and poppy but enough to where I didn't have issues resetting. I felt like I could swing bigger and keep the ball in.

[00:51:09] So I feel like this is one of those paddles that depending on how you customize it with weight it can be a lot of things out of the box. It can be you know low tier power. You add a good chunk of weight is going to hit really hard and be very poppy. You'd go somewhere in the middle. Can be pretty balanced. I personally lean towards a little bit more balanced. I think played really well which actually leads me to another thing. I talked about this on an Instagram story which maybe you saw this or maybe not.

[00:51:35] I believe both John and Braden have talked about this at different times where adding weight will often make a paddle less poppy because which makes sense right like more weight for your swing. It's more to move. So you can't swing as quick anymore which means you probably can't hit the ball as hard anymore. So I can understand that that would potentially make a paddle less poppy but that's never actually been my experience with paddles. First the Spitfire was a great example even on resets.

[00:52:02] I'm like not doing much and the ball is going same thing with a return and then I cut some off and it's fine. Omni same exact experience. When it is has the MOI weights on I feel like it's very stiff. I feel like it's very poppy. It's not far from a boomstick. You take those weights off way less pop much less stiff. So I don't know what is going on there but I just I thought I'd throw in my two cents that I feel like adding weight has never made a paddle less poppy for me.

[00:52:29] I think from the science is probably true but I think in real world use it's so minimal that. I think you'd have to add a lot of weight to really slow your swing down that much. Yeah like like you said you took off what two inches of weight. How much is that changing your swing speed by half a mile an hour. If that. Yeah even if that.

[00:52:56] So like I just don't think it's actually slowing you down by that much. Does it does it. Yes because it's heavier but I don't think it's enough to affect it that much. Yeah so I feel like paddles are often more poppy with weight. Maybe that doesn't apply to every single paddle but a lot of the paddles that I have done this with that is my experience. So just know that if you buy a Spitfire a lot of customization options it's light out of the box low swing weight low static weight.

[00:53:24] And I feel like you just have a lot of options to kind of mess with it. But yeah the more I play with this the higher I get on this paddle. I think at this price it's just it's just very good. I feel like it's one of those paddles. I can't remember if I said this on a story. I think I did. But it is one of probably the few paddles this year that I feel like has gotten a pretty good amount of hype. That I feel like pretty much delivers on every aspect of that hype. Like I don't I'm not saying everyone should buy this. I'm not saying it's a perfect paddle.

[00:53:54] There are going to be a lot of people who would not like this paddle. But I don't think it does anything performance wise poorly. Yeah. So I don't know. It's it's very good. But now on that same note we're going to go into I wanted to just have this as a separate note talking about these two paddles here. So these the Spitfire I've now tested a wide body and an elongated that I bought myself because I feel like you kind of have to do that with all this grit stuff right now.

[00:54:24] Those both tested over 2500 RPM which I've said before very high RPM for me. I've been testing a lot of paddles recently like you know grit test or spin tested like RPM friction pro V2s. I was doing the Neonic FLX. I did the Yola. I mean I've done a bunch of other paddles. These those Spitfires and those Sens Arda paddles. I just realized I never said the model name of it. Yeah. Those are called the Arda. I only ever said the. Wait wait is it Arda or Atra?

[00:54:54] Atra sorry. I was going to say I was like no I think it's Atra. It's Atra. Yeah or Atra. I don't know the pronunciation of it. I keep thinking it should be Arda because that sounds easier to say. Yeah it's Atra. Atra. Whatever. Whatever it is. Whatever the pronunciation is but it's yeah. It's yeah. Atra. Yes. Anyways those four paddles are the only four that I have tested with that much spin and I feel it in gameplay right. The other paddles I'm not saying other paddles spin poorly. Right.

[00:55:23] It's just that there is a noticeable jump up when I hit these and so this leads me to a couple questions about why this is. So I'll walk through all this and then we can kind of go back and forth a little bit. So first prior to durable grit everyone basically just did the same exact thing. Yes there were a couple different types of peel ply sheets and that changed things but I said this a ton over the last two years. I would rarely ever rank paddles by spin because to me they were largely all the same.

[00:55:52] There was not many paddles that was like there is a clear gap that this one is better. Yeah. It was like yeah they're just kind of all the same. Like it doesn't really matter. Yeah. Occasionally you get something like a Fakalos that was just like way too gritty and you're like yeah that spins the ball really well. But by and large all the same. Now with more durable grit everyone's been obviously focused on making them more durable but as we've seen some are maybe do that some maybe do it and spin worse.

[00:56:18] So people are like figuring out a lot of things and now I'm wondering if these just happen to be the first two that happen to optimize durability but also grit and friction of the ball and like it's just grabbing it more than others. What about the P1 the permagrit? Because I feel like that was the first one that like spin was super noticeable and actually made a difference in games to me.

[00:56:48] I'm actually glad you brought that up because I forgot about that. I grit spin tested our wide body P1 and I was able to also get 2500 on that one. Yeah. Um but in general like the first P1 I had I felt like I mean I think you would agree with this. The spin felt a lot more noticeable at the kitchen and midcourt than it did from the baseline. Like I felt like you if you're comparing it to other paddles like yeah it was good at the baseline.

[00:57:15] I think that's what stood out compared to other paddles is how much better you could shape slower shots off the bounce rolls dinks. But I think spin from the baseline was never like bad. No no not bad. Just it was yeah. Yeah and I know you weren't didn't mean bad but I just I think it was plenty good to the point where I didn't even really have to think like that was a given. Sure. It was just amazing how much better it was at the midcourt and kitchen. And kitchen. Yeah.

[00:57:44] So yeah the P1 is is another one now that I've tested a wide body. Yeah. And the I noticed that the paddles changed slightly so my original hybrid and I think a lot of reviews talked about this had those slightly raised lines. Now those raised lines are gone like it's just flush on the surface. So I don't know if that actually made spin better or what. I don't know but spin was over 2500 on that. So five paddles I guess.

[00:58:09] So it made me wonder if we're either starting to see a handful of paddles that just happened to nail friction the right amount of grit and how sharp it is and how much it actually bites into the ball versus other companies. Maybe that is happening or because the other thing too is when it comes to the cannon I'm starting to wonder and I should really ask John about this because John or if I had gotten

[00:58:35] to go to that PPL lab thing I could ask some people there but I would be very curious how much the cannon always lines up with real world use case. Like maybe it is a little lower on the cannon but really good with a human arm because think about the cannons holding like this and shooting a ball at it. In the real world you're hitting with a lot of different paddle angles. By this he means at a 45 degree angle by the way. I think it's like. Is it not 45? It might be 30. 30. Somewhere in that range. On an angle.

[00:59:04] It's fixed on an angle. Whereas in the real world you know different swing speeds different mechanics like I wonder if certain grits might work good in the real world but bad on the cannon. Like great example. Maybe this is a bad example actually because the V-Soul was kind of all over. When John cannon tested it it's like 1800. I was getting like 2300 with my arm which is a very is a great result. You know. So I'm wondering if there are paddles that could be a little lower on the cannon but actually be great in the real world. Yeah.

[00:59:33] Yeah. And then the main thing I wanted to lead into with that is that there's one of two things happening right now with any of these paddles I'm talking about. Either rules are somehow getting skirted which you know rules that's not been an uncommon thing in pickleball that's been pretty common. Or the other option is that kind of what I was just saying where the test isn't lining up perfectly with what you can do in the real world because both when I pick up mostly

[01:00:01] I guess the P1 I have and the Spitfire they don't feel egregiously rough compared to other things we've hit. I think even the the stare at I think even backs that up like there are a number of paddles that are more gritty and get worse spin than that. But again we've talked about this roughness doesn't always equate to spin so maybe it's right in that perfect Goldilocks zone. It's not sticking to my hand it's not like it's a super rubbery surface and like my hand just won't get off this thing.

[01:00:31] The Atra is different in that it feels very sharp and different from some of the other textures but it doesn't feel super high friction you know. Yep. So I don't really know what's going on why some of these are getting such crazy spin but I'll tell you what since that Atra is UPA certified we're gonna find out if there's any funny business because they're pretty on top of it. Yeah. So I I don't know I just think it's weird.

[01:00:58] That's the type of grit kind of like how the the Faklos was when Gabe started using it where it's so sharp and pointy it's almost like like Velcro tabs where that will stick to your shirt. Oh you grab that it will stick to pretty much whatever shirt you got. Although maybe will it to your hoodie? Not that not that material. My hoodie is a lie. Not anything because that's a pretty slick. Will it stick to yours? Maybe it won't. No not these.

[01:01:25] I think it's like the the like athletic shirts is something about it's it's like Velcro where they just mesh together really well but it's just so pointy and sharp that it just grabs. Yeah. Right like you can't do that with with hex grit. Yeah. It's it's just bulky and kind of rounded. Yeah. Yeah. But it feels very you know it's funny. I've been thinking about this with like cheating isn't really quite right the right word but like finding loopholes and and and skirting lines in rules with with paddle certification.

[01:01:53] It's almost like F1 or racing sports in general like cheating is against the rules. Yeah. But it's part of the culture of the sport. Right. Right. Like you can cheat just don't get caught like happens in F1 all the time and then they have to like make a new rule and they'll make a new rule. Some team figures something out and it's kind of cheating a little bit you know and it's like you can do it just don't get caught with it. And that's that's how I'm viewing pickleball right now. Yeah. It's very it's really weird.

[01:02:20] I still feel like there's a lot to figure out with it and I wonder if rules will continue to change and be updated as people find different ways of doing things because I mean the spin that I feel like I was getting just I haven't seen a paddle do it really. So I it's just confusing to me I guess like I would love to see up a Roscoe a Hunter Johnson like one of these singles players and see what they could do spin wise on these. Yeah. I feel like it'd be disgusting.

[01:02:49] Oh yeah. It'd be nuts. So I just don't know. I don't know what's going on there but if any I do I don't have really any faith that USAP is going to figure out anything or do something like I know they have their new spin rule which actually let's quickly talk about that because with USAP's new spin rule awesome glad they're doing it. I think that is great but I have said this over and over it doesn't matter what test you have in place if you don't enforce the test.

[01:03:19] Yes. With how the old test was which don't get me wrong not a good test at least for a good number of people they could kind of touch the paddle and go oh that shouldn't be legal like there got to a point I'm not saying that is perfect science not saying that at all but there is definitely a legal grade where you knew it was illegal if you touched it. Oh for sure. Right. If you've been around or and you've hit you know a plethora of paddles you're just in the industry you can you can tell yeah pretty easily I'd even be willing to bet you people

[01:03:47] at USAP could do that and figure that out right for sure so at least with that you could have a lot of people flagging stuff and going like hey wait like I think this is too gritty and at least USAP might hear that and maybe they'll consider doing something about it but with how the cannon test is going to go now okay so there's no way to know if someone let's say they submit one paddle in for spin testing and then they're like okay it barely passes now

[01:04:13] let's make it a little rougher a little sharper whatever and now let's say it would exceed that spin limit so I guess the only person who's ever going to be able to catch a company would be John like I'm not saying that it's I don't even want it to be our job I actually hate I literally hate is probably my least favorite part of the job having to guess whether a company is cheating sending something weird like I hate it.

[01:04:36] Well it just always felt weird like because like deep down we know it's in violation of those rules but like it's really our place to like call it out it technically has the approval stamp you know it's just a weird gray area I agree you know so it's like yeah I hate that that it's not our job shouldn't even be close to being our job and uh I just I hate that USAP like

[01:05:03] it's so easy to game them yeah people have been doing it forever in this literally since we got into pickleball ever since we started and there's so many and look I know there's a handful on their like checklist recently that got dinged like I think the speed up tide was on there and maybe like one of the proton flamingos or peacock that should never have even gotten through like it's happened so many times yeah like there's so many other people doing it that I'm like okay

[01:05:28] cool you caught four out of 400 yeah like nice job right you know so but my whole point with all of this was just that I feel like now there will be more opportunity for people to not get caught because more people don't have the ability to be like huh this seems a little odd I feel like a paddle maybe shouldn't be able to feel like this and now it's an even slower process for them to

[01:05:52] check up on it so to me your laws or your rules are only as good as the enforcement that you will put down yep and from what I've seen so far UPAA has done a significantly better job of actually enforcing and punishing companies when they go outside the rules and we all know how USAP has been and look everyone wants USAP to do a better job like no one wants USAP to fail I don't want USAP to fail like I feel like I've said this again before if there were actual fines and companies

[01:06:20] were getting dinged and it was big enough you put everyone else in line and they go okay I don't want a $50,000 fine maybe I won't break the rule yep but right now it feels like I'm not gonna get caught if I don't get caught I get slapped on the wrist either I'm not gonna get caught and I can get away with this or if I don't do this my paddle will immediately be you know bottom of the barrel

[01:06:46] no one will touch it so like companies feel like they have to do it yeah and so I I hate that it's it's all a mess so I I hope that gets better with this I hope that there's like actual proper enforcement that gets in place but I haven't heard anything about that like yeah USAP said hey we do the secret Santa shopping thing they've been saying that since like 2022 and there's been like not many paddles that have gotten dinged when the vast majority are all over the place so I don't know I

[01:07:12] I say all of that to talk about I like I'm confused how these couple paddles are spinning so well if we've just managed to marry the perfect texture with ball combo and now the spin is awesome and not everyone else has figured out if there's rule skirting or what the deal is I have no idea yeah I just know that when I'm hitting it and other people are playing against me I'm going well that's new and I don't see that very often went on a little little rant there yeah that was a little definitely a little bit of a rant

[01:07:40] um okay uh I'm gonna go over two things really quick and then we'll get to the kitchen here so enhanced turbos we have gotten our new models they are releasing on the 10th or sorry the 5th of October I pretty much guarantee you we won't have a review done by then because I'm working on other paddles so I'm just going to tell you all right now that if you are worried about the grit I would say if you're going to buy it buy it as if you would be happy if the grit wasn't good because no one knows

[01:08:09] right now with you know all the new ones that got sent out if they're good if they're not good it's going to take time to figure that out so if you're on the fence either don't buy it or just buy it knowing you would be happy with it even if it wasn't good long lasting grit but we probably will not have a video in time um and then you know what let's just let's just pop over to the kitchen here let's just talk about thanks skipping over this huh yeah we'll just we'll just skip over that part

[01:08:32] um okay let's talk about the kitchen indoor facilities indoor facilities so we have I've been seeing a lot online facilities closing there have been you know rumors in our state off and on about other facilities potentially having to close because they're not doing that well in fact that actually happened to uh one of our picklers uh you know up north had to I don't know if they went bankrupt or what the deal was but all I know is it got sold for very cheap

[01:09:01] to one of our other local facilities so clearly wasn't doing very well and I've seen on reddit and a bunch of other places that a lot of picklers aren't doing that well I think there was one in Texas recently that just like randomly closed and there was a lot of issues with that so I thought it'd be interesting to talk about this and this is why I put the question at the the beginning is because I'm just curious what other people are seeing and I feel like we have a lot of experience with indoor facilities because I believe the current count is somewhere around 35 indoor

[01:09:31] facilities in Minnesota with like maybe 12 of those being lifetimes and then the rest are like dedicated single-owned pickleball facilities or you know maybe dual-owned partners but not like a franchise the pickler to my knowledge was our only franchise and I almost feel like we have more there's just so many here yeah I mean there could be I mean there's so many facilities but 30 plus in one state is insane plus there are I mean I didn't look at the list you put together when you're looking

[01:09:58] through but I know there are some like tennis domes and facilities that have dedicated pickleball courts as well so a loose estimate like conservative estimate of 35 yeah so uh like I said picklers have kind of been going under I feel like if you look on reddit there's been a lot of drama about different picklers like franchise franchising a pickleball facility is just not I feel it's never

[01:10:21] made sense to me because maybe it's because we know a lot of the facility owners in Minnesota and I know I don't know the all of the numbers but I have heard when things are good and I have heard when things are not good like in the summer here facilities are lucky if they break even because everyone goes outside yep and I think that's shifting a little bit depends on the summer we have

[01:10:46] you know if it's really rainy or windy and you know like that can change things um but yeah usually summers are pretty brutal for facilities so you combine that with a potential franchise fee that you now have to pay every month like my thought with franchises for pickleball facilities has always been what exactly are you gaining from them okay yes you may gain some knowledge on hey here's more ideal lighting here's ideal spacing like we know this works you should do this because how many

[01:11:15] facilities have we seen here where they got the lighting really poor or they got the spacing really bad and the court really sucks like that's happened a lot but I also feel like if you're going to open a pickleball facility that stuff is not that hard to learn yeah talking to players or people in the know I really feel like a month or two of good research in your local area you could probably figure that out without much issue I agree so I don't feel like you need a franchise to give you that information

[01:11:44] and then the name of a franchise I've personally never thought and maybe other people feel differently about this but like if I'm traveling my head does not immediately go like oh where's the nearest pickler or where's the nearest uh pickleball kingdom I'm just like I look up pickleball facilities does it have good ratings what are people in that area saying about it and then I go to that one yeah I've also always thought and this is maybe a personal thing people are always like oh yeah picklers have the best lighting you know that's why you go to the pickler because the best like no

[01:12:13] every pickler I've been in I hate how they're lit it is always so bad it's just so black everything is really like corners are really dark the lighting is spotty I just I've never been a fan yeah I haven't been to a lot so I can't really comment on I've only probably been to three maybe four um but yeah I just I feel like they are a little dark so you on top of pickleball facilities already

[01:12:42] feeling like they have not great margins because of their summers I'm just like you're going to learn all of the things about running a proper facility whether you franchise it or not you franchise it there's probably still and you don't know much about pickleball there's going to be a lot you have to learn to run that thing properly so I'm like you're going to learn it anyways but now you're stuck paying the franchise fee forever yeah during a summer where you might not be making a lot of money

[01:13:07] so I just all that to say I don't feel like franchising really ever made sense so I feel like that is why a lot of those are struggling also really like location matters yes because Minnesota you know our summers get hot but not like crazy but obviously we hear Texas Arizona people just can't play outside middle of the day you're either playing like 6 a.m. outside or like 8 p.m. because it's just too hot when the sun's out so I can see indoor facilities doing better in the summer

[01:13:36] in places like that yeah you know yeah I agree I agree uh yeah it's the equivalent of our winter yep just flipped seasonally so you know maybe in their winter that means they do worse because people are just outside it's warmer outside or you know warm for that state yeah maybe cold for them but warm to us warm for us yeah yeah so yeah I don't I just feel like it doesn't make sense and also with how fast I can only say the pickler I have no idea for the kingdom or other places that

[01:14:03] were expanding but if I recall when the first pickler got announced here they also had announced that they were going to do like two others and I was like you're going to do three with all of the other facilities that exist here like I somehow we keep adding facilities in Minnesota and every time we add one I go how are you going to make it there's one chain in particular that I'm like who's funding this how are you making enough money yeah there's three of them now yeah the pickle in

[01:14:29] the middle there's a 24-7 place where you can go middle of the night I've booked a court at three in the morning before yeah uh you just get a code and go in I don't understand how they're making so much money I mean if if they have low overhead because they don't have employees because it's the 24-hour type of deal if you just sign in and scan a card or whatever and walk in like maybe that's part of it I don't know what their programming looks like you know for leagues open play and all that but yeah I mean we just have so many I mean the joke amongst people in

[01:14:57] Minnesota is like take a rock and blindfold yourself and throw it and you're probably going to hit a facility and it'll probably bounce off that one and go hit another facility and and public courts and public courts like I think we have some of the most public courts in the country too I'd be curious about that we do have a lot dude in the area we live in right here there in 10 minutes you can get to like five different public courts yeah it's insane yeah there's a there's a lot of courts so I just every time a new one opens I'm like how are you

[01:15:27] I don't understand how you're still making money um but so I want the main thing I wanted to talk about with this was what we think helps make a good facility because I think what has happened is you know early in pickleball I think it was 2022 when our first dedicated indoor pickleball facility opened so it's crazy that in like 2022 we had none besides like gym floors and now we have

[01:15:52] like 30 plus that's insane to me but at that time it was like a huge deal when that one announced like I would drive you know 30 minutes to this one a pretty good amount because that's where you could get good play and play indoors without the snow and I feel like it was just like paddle companies it used to be easy to make a paddle like all you had to do was basically exist and you could make money I feel like facilities were that way and I think now we are getting to the point where that is not the case yeah and I think there are certain things you need if you want to survive well so we'll

[01:16:22] talk about that a little bit first one and if you think of ideas feel free to chime in but I think you need good organized play in two ways you probably just need an open play maybe like a social type thing like hey you know you don't need a duper you just show up and you play and you just accept yeah this is probably not going to be the most organized perfect balanced level play and then I do think you need duper gated play which I know is a pro and a con because my wife tells me stories all the time of

[01:16:50] people wanting to be in a certain open play and they can't has to be separated that has to be gated yes and it has to actually be properly gated you can't make all these special exceptions because when I've seen that bite facilities in the butt exactly people start going hey how did they get in they're not good enough and then people who aren't in are going hey their duper's not that I let me in yeah you know so I you have to just have a hard line and say look this is the duper cutoff yeah it sucks

[01:17:16] it is what it is we have these other open plays that are not duper gated there you go yep and I would say same thing with leagues I think the strictness is what really matters yes if you're loose with the rules I'll let this person slide or I'll let them in then that's when you start getting a lot of the complaints but if you're just like these are the rules and that's it then people can't complain about anything yeah you just either you like it or you don't nope and I look I know it's not perfect I know there's a lot of like different flaws with duper but it is as good as we have right now

[01:17:46] and I think it does can do its job you know they're gonna be instances where it's not perfect but it's way better than just saying hey I'm a I'm a 4-0 let me in I'm gonna go play that and then they're you know actually a 3-2 or something yep everyone wants to play up for some reason uh so and I also think this is something I experienced for the first time but I think it makes the organized play even more enjoyable in my opinion but it was that that king of the court thing I went to so like

[01:18:12] I said now you need a lot of courts for this this facility has 12 courts so I think five of the courts were dedicated to an open play and then three of the courts in that same session were the king of the court court so it's like oh you want to play with better players work up to the better court and if you're good enough you will continue to play better players if you can't make it up there okay well you're not good enough you can just go play in the regular open play or you can keep trying on the

[01:18:38] king of the court I really I really think that's how facilities should do most open plays yeah is section it off like that because you go to public parks when people really enjoy like certain days we set things up is when you have a consistent group or day that we do open play and then we section off two courts these are challenge courts yep if you want to like try and play better players you're gonna have to wait in a longer line because there's probably gonna be a lot and if you win you stay

[01:19:05] those are the rules I think if a lot of facilities did that I think that'd be probably a winning formula I thought it was when I went to this uh open play I had a blast because we bet we pretty much bounced between the top I think we had one time where we had to rotate back down to the bottom but pretty much bounce between the top and the middle court perfectly enjoyable I mean think about uh oh what's the name of it um rights I will uh manages the place out in

[01:19:34] California why am I blanking on it I literally had it in my head this morning I pickle I pickle they have a thing where they they call it Friday night social don't know how they get this many people there I mean it's a big event every Friday night a lot of food trucks music taught they have tons of courts where all the courts are open play and it's kind of sectioned off different levels like there's it's such a big facility they can have areas where it's like okay certain level group here certain here

[01:20:01] and then there's like two courts or one court I think one specifically that is a challenge court and dude the line for that court is huge if you lose you go back to the bottom line you're waiting like 45 minutes yeah or an hour and I I wanted everyone wants to go there I wanted to bring that up because and you know it's probably maybe even a little better as we go down here but I have done a couple one or two of their type of social events and I will say it was probably some

[01:20:31] of the most fun community engaged pickleball that I have been involved in because oh yeah a number of reasons because you know everyone wants to make a lot of pickleball stuff out to be like oh the high level people don't want to play with the lower level people and yes there's probably there is some truth to that but what's awesome about their social is it's all the way from beginner to higher level and look there are a lot of people that I'm friends with that yeah okay maybe they're not like the same

[01:20:56] level as me but playing pickleball with them is enjoyable because I just like being around them so when you have a huge event where okay hey if I want a minute where I go play a serious game I can go play it but then I can also just go mix in with a bunch of my friends and have a good time so much fun and I feel like if facilities can do events like that weekly like just once a week or something really well they get like four to five hundred people there which is I don't know how that's possible extremely abnormal I don't think most facilities could even manage that yeah I also

[01:21:26] think a big part of what brings in people one programming and events and stuff like that is huge but also it's like what we talked about last week of how do you get into better groups you know being a very likable person the people that run your place managers GM's and especially the pros the coaches at your facility if they're liked people that's what attracts customer base yeah and just

[01:21:51] people in general like look at uh how like the higher level group here in Minnesota just kind of all shifts together yeah right like whoever's good at that facility if people like them they will go there yeah you know it's the same thing so I think having really good one staff friendly staff but knowledgeable pros or coaches that are just really good at the job having good coaches I think

[01:22:17] attracts a lot of people to your facility yeah I do I do think that helps um so yeah good organized play I think that's that's huge I think sectioning it off where some is duper some is not you don't want to do all duper because then it's hard for some people to get in like you need kind of a path for people to be able to get into some of those events um the larger social events I think those are awesome I think it's going to be tough on for a lot of places to do that because you know there are a lot

[01:22:42] of facilities with three courts six courts maybe 10 courts you know it's just I don't think most places could do as big of a eye pickle event no that's a that's normal yeah that's that's rare but you know what maybe you have 10 courts and you cap it at you know whatever number makes sense I can't I'm not thinking of one off the top of my head but 10 courts maybe you cap it like 100 people or something like that you know that could also be appealing because if it's hard to get in sometimes

[01:23:11] scarcity you know makes people want to go more oh dude think about the league we used to be in like a year ago or not a year ago like two years ago it was capped at 100 people the waiting list of people to get in I think it went to like 400 people wanting to get in there and if you're at the bottom of the list of the the group you had your chance and you got swapped for someone else who comes in and they get to try out essentially the scarcity thing attracts people yeah especially if

[01:23:37] it's run well you know obviously it has to be a good event which then people want to go to it yep um I also think just a lot of you know like highlighting members or like just different community building things like I think pickleball the thing most of us like about pickleball is how easy it is to be engaged with people and like communicate have a good time and so I feel like when you're highlighting members you're making them feel like they're a part of a community like the same facility I just went to

[01:24:07] recently like I saw just a lot of people interacting I think there was someone maybe it was their birthday I saw some birthday cards or something it looked like a bunch of people got it from like when people feel like they are a part of a community that is like like intoxicating people that's what I feel like humans are built for this what everyone wants you want to feel like you're a part of something and so if you can make that environment set up for people and encourage it that is ideal that is not easy to do but I think if you really want long-term good success you need to find a way to do that yeah

[01:24:36] whether it's highlighting them on your socials or maybe your top members you make them feel special in some type of way I don't know there's a lot of different ways I think you could do it you know maybe your top five biggest spenders maybe they get some discount on gear or maybe they get into a tournament for free or yada yada yada a lot of different ways you could do it so I think that's highlighting members so what okay I'm curious if you're in your mind thinking of facilities um

[01:25:00] or if you're building your perfect facility what are things that to you matter and things that don't like it's like non-negotiables with paddles handle shape grit like what are the things that you really care about and then things are like yeah I can pass that doesn't matter now obviously there's a lot of categories here so you might not think of something but there's a few in my mind that I'm like I'll go to a facility and be like I could not care less about this and there are other aspects I'm like

[01:25:26] this is what matters yes okay if I had to think I'm not going to order them but I'll just like just start throwing them out there yeah lighting has to be good yep if lighting really sucks I don't want to play there spotty downward facing lighting horrible yeah directly over the kitchen you get lobbed you're blind when you look up that's yeah that's like got to be number one yeah lighting I think court spacing is next see court spacing is tricky because I've thought about this obviously

[01:25:54] everyone wants bigger courts but if you're the business yeah you're thinking okay I want more if we give them even if you give a couple more feet across the whole facility that might come down to like losing two courts and then you think about the revenue that two courts could bring in so I get there's a lot of business aspect there of like how much lost revenue based on how much bigger your court is could be but yeah slightly bigger like area there's a sweet spot yeah I

[01:26:20] and here's the thing I I wish I had measurements to give people because there I'm sure there are courts where I'm like oh this is just feels really unplayable and then other courts I'm like yeah this is fine there are some shots see people complain about that one a lot doesn't bother me like is it ideal no but what I is it so bad that I wouldn't want to play there no that one bothers me quite a bit yeah I do hear that a lot but again that also level comes into a factor because again

[01:26:46] like think about the mass majority of customer base that is making you money is not four five five oh plus people where the spacing really matters that you're going to get a lot of complaints from a small demographic of people and so I get it doesn't really matter that much you know but if you do want to have a bigger group of higher level people and get programming for them then spacing matters

[01:27:11] yeah I agree um trying to think after that like those are definitely two of my biggest ones I'm gonna start listing things yeah like for me so like okay lounging area like where do people want to be at your facility where groups going to kind of congregate and talk and like because a lot of people like to stand around courts watch people play but if your area your lounge is way separated from courts then no one's gonna want to be over there and they're all gonna be crowded around these tight

[01:27:40] narrow pathways amongst courts right so then that's gonna get clogged so I think the figuring out where to put uh tables and couches and places for people to lounge really important uh how much does food matter actually I have one really quick I'd probably put this pretty high up there sound proofing not a total deal breaker for me but there are facilities that are so loud where it's really hard for me to hear someone calling the ball and it it or call the score yep and it does start to irritate me I'll get over

[01:28:10] it but better sound proofing is ideal then that's that is a tough one that's like lighting where it's really expensive yes and you could try something and it might not work yes so I've known facility owners that have spent 50 60 70 000 and it didn't really do anything so that is a tricky one I think that is like but that is a big one for sure um but like restaurants how much does a restaurant matter to you some places we have one facility here that does it really well and I think I mean it's basically

[01:28:39] its own it's almost separate from the pickleball it's connected through doors but people go specifically just to the restaurant not for the pickleball and they're not they aren't actually separate they are under the same entity but like they're so separate that it's like you could go have a you know pretty nice dinner out when I say nice it's not like luxury but yeah a good enough dinner out that you would go there just to get dinner and not even think about pickleball yes whereas like I feel like a lot of

[01:29:07] pickleball places they will try and do some food little diner or something inside you know they make smoothies or small snacks and stuff couldn't care less that stuff usually the food is subpar if it's not a full-blown actual restaurant almost like uh um chicken and pickle that's the better way to do it if you're thinking about putting in a little restaurant into your facility I almost would skip it because

[01:29:32] I everyone I talk to people aren't buying like little bars and stuff it's just I don't know most people don't really care yeah I feel like it's it's one of those tricky things because obviously if you're gonna do a chicken and pickle I mean you have two businesses at that point you have a pickleball business and you have a restaurant is really what you have it has to be like two separate things where I think and restaurants can be a lot of work getting different licenses food code all that so I understand why people don't do it but I some of the best facilities I have been to do both extremely

[01:30:00] well and I've seen a lot of times where pickleball facilities really try and do some food it just fails it's mixed in with the pickleball area so it's too loud which means you're not going to draw on random people that's the nice thing about the one facility here is the wall that separates it I wouldn't say it's soundproof but it's so good like you don't really know that there's pickleball on the other side yeah you can go into that restaurant and not even think about pickleball

[01:30:26] yeah so I feel like if you have it all mixed in one area okay you're not bringing in other random non-pickleball people and then even the pickleball people from my experience it's like okay yes occasionally a smoothie or some other type of small snack might be really nice if I was running behind and I just I'm in a jam I need some food at that point you almost just rather have a vending machine you don't need staff the small things that people are gonna buy it's just better to do it that way I feel like yeah so I feel like food can be really hit or miss is like a very fine line on what makes

[01:30:55] it good and what makes it needs to be done well so that's that's a big one um like gyms how much does a gym area matter I for me I don't know how it is for you that's actually starting to matter a lot more for me but I'd bet for most pickleball people they don't care I would agree I think most people don't really care but I think for the select few it's great yeah um for me what's bigger

[01:31:17] is a great bathroom and locker room I think having like like uh chips they have the amenities I care about there's a shower there's a cold plunge there's stuff like that there's a sauna that's stuff I really like yeah um but that's that's spacing is tough for that yeah trying to think what would be one of those if you have the space nice add-ons not the most important not necessary

[01:31:47] yeah yeah um one really tricky thing for facilities windows dude every ever just put as dark of tint as you possibly can yeah you don't want bad light bleeding in but yeah like sunlight coming through is has quite literally killed some facilities yeah I mean it can be really really bad yeah or just throw some blackout curtains up man yeah something no one cares about looking outside when you're

[01:32:12] playing pickleball yeah no one cares yeah um so stuff like I'm trying to think is there anything else uh I mean I think there are a lot of things that do go into facility and there's things that you have to kind of rank in terms of order order of importance but I think some of these things as facilities end up closing down will matter more to stand out like I didn't ever used to care about

[01:32:35] a gym or some of those things but now I'm like I really like having a good gym yeah how much does a pro shop matter I don't think it really does I think having a select few paddles that people can like demo great but I rarely ever hear people being like I'm going to that facility to go buy my next paddle see that one's tough because I think there's two completely different demographics there I think

[01:33:00] we live in a demographic where we probably aren't ever going to do that especially because a lot of the paddles uh that are interesting are not mass market paddles like a Yola or a Selkirk but I do imagine that there are a lot of facilities where having some of the bigger hitters Yola Selkirk and then maybe you sprinkle in some like more niche options would be really helpful sure because that's

[01:33:25] what I'm saying like it just having a full-blown large pro shop not large like carrying shoes and like just tons of stuff is not great I mean I just talked to somebody who owns a retail store and have like a retail area in a facility and he just pulled out because it's just is losing money on it so I think that's something that in my opinion doesn't really matter that much I mean obviously I'm never going to care about it yeah for me personally but even talking to others I

[01:33:53] haven't heard of a single person that's like I want to go buy my next paddle at that facility I feel like if you're going to do it either you are going to have such a big facility where having like a giga nice pro shop is a benefit or if you are a smaller facility like I would not ever say go crazy like to me if you're a smaller to medium-sized facility you only have like 10 courts if I was going to build

[01:34:19] out a pro shop for them and make recommendations I feel like I'd only be saying up to five paddle brands probably about there I would be saying you probably have to carry Yola you have to carry Selkirk and then from there I think you could sprinkle in a couple other interesting options like maybe you throw in an 11 624 where you've got like a long-lasting grit great performing paddles reasonable price and then maybe you throw in something like that's even more niche or more

[01:34:48] budget but and I get some places we'll try to have like company-sponsored facilities yeah it's like oh we're a Yola sponsor facility so we carry Yola stuff you know like that would make sense yeah right but carrying trying to be like a full top uh full tailored retail shop carrying 10 brands doesn't make sense and there's too many overlapping options that's why I think you hit a couple different like price points and you call it good like I know a hundred dollar paddle is probably going to be a tough sell for a facility because the margins are going to be so bad for them on that but if you can carry you

[01:35:18] know some reasonable cheap option for people who don't want to spend a lot a good mid-tier option like an 11 624 and then the expensive like you know quote-unquote premium options it's probably all you need then maybe you sell some over grips balls yeah balls and a couple other things but you probably don't got to go much crazier than that um pro shop is a I'm glad you brought that up though because I would have totally blanked on that one so it's just like amenities and different

[01:35:44] things like that that don't really matter in my opinion but I don't know it's like all just depends on how it's done you can have the amenity and do it really badly you could have a gym and do it really poorly and then no one wants to use it well having water stations around oh that's a big one that's a good good water station because if you're a big facility I've been in some places that are big facilities but water's like all the way on the other side yeah and if I forget a large water bottle

[01:36:11] I am so mad yeah it's depending on what court I'm playing yes yes of course of course um I guess last couple things I'd just say about this uh one if you do a membership model which not a lot of our facilities do that there are more starting to do it but historically memberships have not really been a thing in Minnesota do not oversell your memberships have a proper cap I feel like I've heard this about being a big problem for the pickler is they would way oversell their memberships to the point where

[01:36:39] getting a court was just difficult so if you were a member you're like dude I bought this so I could play pickleball but I can't play pickleball because everything fills up so like you need to have a lower set of memberships to where it makes sense for you financially but also does not annoy your kind of like customer base lifetime in the facility near us where it's like okay then you can get a lifetime membership but getting a court at that facility is really hard impossible you are booking

[01:37:07] it the second it opens if you want a good time court yes you can usually get like a 6 a.m. court but then you're getting like 8 p.m. yeah but middle of the day or just after work good luck yeah even within two days yeah not happening yeah you I mean I've literally had times where it's like the moment it opens a week in advance I'm like going through it as quick as possible and I've still been beat yep by other people so yeah it can be kind of crazy so yeah don't oversell your memberships I think that

[01:37:36] can be uh pretty detrimental um and then I guess we kind of already talked about this but yeah I feel like good community building is is huge I mean I feel you get bad word of mouth and pickleball that spreads really quick if people hear like oh you know the owner is like this or oh the facility is really bad about this that starts spreading and people like oh let's just go over here that goes back

[01:37:59] to the like having good like very personable nice pros and people there like that matters a lot more than people think yeah one small thing that is like this is not needed but is just so nice to every facility I've been at like lifetimes obviously all have this but outside of that having a place that has just towels that you can just grab awesome that doesn't I guess really ever matter to me because

[01:38:24] I just bring my own I just like having a fresh towel that I don't have I mean it's nice lifetime yeah people do it all the time like it's a nice part of being at a lifetime um and you know lifetimes are great here because since the founder is from here all the facilities for pickleball are usually pretty good so a lot of the higher level guys especially in the winter lifetime I'll go to lifetime because you can book a court you can get it with your group of people the membership you know

[01:38:51] depending on the mod or the version you have is like 200 bucks a month but if you're playing a lot okay that's your gym membership that's your pickleball like big the cost doesn't end up being that bad for what it is yeah you know like I would prefer to have a lifetime membership over most other memberships here so all right I try I don't think there's much else no thing about on facilities I think I think that's it um let us know what you guys think if you have any thoughts about what's happened

[01:39:17] with facilities in your area good things bad things what you've seen work what hasn't worked um leave a comment down below and you know I did think of a word this week I was actually prepared this time I was thinking of one too what's yours be be be all right that's that's a good one feel free to work be in yeah we'll stick with that there were there were like no three five jokes last week which means one of two things either no one made it to the end or no one wanted to make a three five joke you've moved on I think you've graduated I think I've graduated so all right let's see if

[01:39:44] anyone has be on their mind so all right thanks for watching guys we'll catch you next week peace