Building the World's Biggest Pickleball Event | Ben Weinberger from the US Open Pickleball

[00:00:00] You're listening to CourtReserve Unscripted with me, Ashley Owens. How are you? I am good. Well, thank you again. Thank you again for spending time with us. I really appreciate it. Absolutely. Happy to do, excited to do so. And I think I saw you're from near where I am. And I'm not from where you're from, but I live in Chapel Hill. So. Oh, okay. So wait, Carolina or Duke? Well, this might determine our friendship. Yeah, I live in Chapel Hill.

[00:00:49] So we, when we first moved to the area we lived in Durham, literally across the street from Duke, you know, we'd walk to games and, you know, we were kind of all in. But really, because we weren't from here, I'm from Pennsylvania, my wife's from Illinois. We were sort of like, whoever gives us free tickets, we'll root for them. And so we got to go to a lot of different games. And then eventually we bought our current house.

[00:01:17] And it's a Chapel Hill address, but we're still technically in Durham. But because we're so close to Chapel Hill, the mail comes through Chapel Hill. But all I would say, I don't think it's an exaggeration. Probably 90% of our neighbors who have something to do with one of the universities is Chapel Hill. So. Of course. You know, it's, we're all in on Carolina and we go to. I'll tell, I'll tell Tim. Yeah, sorry. We go to a lot of Carolina stuff. But.

[00:01:48] But. And it's sort of, again, like happenstance, probably where we lived, you know, had we bought a house in Durham and had a bunch of Durham friends, we probably would have sort of for the last 10 plus years been all in on Duke. Absolutely. I mean, Tim and I both grew up in North Carolina and my dad was a Duke fan. And then when I met Tim, he was a Duke fan and it just kind of, it was like a marriage made in heaven. And we actually had a Chinese exchange student that lived with us and he wanted to go to Duke.

[00:02:17] I don't think he ever applied. He actually got into Clemson. But we've always had friendships that were that rivalry of the Carolina Duke rivalry. I mean, there's, you know, there's just those games. And unfortunately, I'm at the age now where it's hard to stay up till 11 or 12 o'clock and finish watching. Right. Exactly. Yeah, it's totally agree. And, you know, it's funny because we didn't go to any of them.

[00:02:42] People will still sort of like point to us like, hey, you know, we're, we're going to Duke game. You got to be, you know, wearing the Duke blue and everything. I'm like, I don't own a lot of Duke blue, but, um, uh, and I have friends who, who think I'm a Duke fan because every time they come to town, like, like, uh, New York people, they come into town, you know, Hey Ben, let's go to the game. And they, that's all they know me as is going to the Duke games with them. They don't know that I, um, Wait, they don't know about pickleball yet. Well, they know about pickleball, but, uh, they don't necessarily know about, um, sort of that.

[00:03:12] I, you know, live in Chapel Hill, I guess, or that I, I don't know. They don't like put it together, but, um, the, uh, the, I'm going to say our, we have, um, a daughter who's a junior in, in, um, high school. And so she's in that phase and, um, her, uh, count guidance counselor went through the, like, you know, here's your safety school, your target school, your reach schools.

[00:03:38] And, um, and some of them were schools we've never heard or talk about. And so I said, you know, well, what do you think about Duke? Duke and, um, and she, you know, just from growing up here, like here, here, Chapel Hill here, she like can't stand the thought of Duke in her head. It's like such a, it's so crazy. We're not like anti Duke. We don't, we don't like do that in our household.

[00:04:01] And, um, and, but she did say like, well, I don't think I could get in. And I said, you know, look, if you have any interest at all, you should apply. And I've always told you that if you get into Duke, we fully support you going to Duke. Um, like it has no, don't worry about the fact that we live in Chapel and we go to UNC baseball and basketball and football and whatever. Like, like we'll, we'll switch. We'll go to Duke. That's right. I mean, dark blue looks good on everybody.

[00:04:27] Exactly. She's very about the blue. And, um, there's a few of our schools that are like brown or green or whatever. And she's like that. I don't think I can do it. Like they're not blue. Like I need to have all blue schools. I mean, it's a good list to start with. I mean, at least let's not put Michigan on the list. Okay. Let's just at least keep it in the Carolinas for sure. So Michigan's not on the list, but she put, um, Michigan state. And I said, Michigan state, what are you talking about?

[00:04:56] I said, we've never even once talked about Michigan state. And by the way, I don't like Michigan state. Um, I don't like Izzo, like, you know, and, uh, she's like, well, you know, my counselor said it was sort of like fit with some of these other schools. Um, like Penn state showed up. We've talked about Penn state. I'm from Pennsylvania originally. Um, I'm all for, you know, if she wants to go there, that's great. But, uh, but Michigan state was like one of those funny.

[00:05:23] You said Michigan, like it's, I wouldn't, I don't want NC state. I don't want Michigan state. There you go. Well, I was reading a little bit about you. And so, you know, of course you have such a big presence in Florida at the U S open and NPC and all that, but you live in North Carolina. So how does that work? I would have assumed you lived in Naples. Uh, I'll be there this weekend.

[00:05:47] Um, I'm there a lot, but, uh, yeah, so we, um, four years ago, um, when I was leaving sling TV, like sort of in between sling TV and, you know, looking at next things, um, I was working with a bunch of venture capitalist, um, groups and investors, and I started talking to them about pickleball. And one of the groups said, we're actually looking at pickleball.

[00:06:17] And we have some, uh, folks that are interested in investing and starting a company in the space. Do you guys want to talk? And so we all talked and, uh, they were already forming the company and, um, in the process of, um, acquiring the U S open. And so it, it sort of came together in a way that wasn't maybe your typical, like you guys started in Charlotte and, you know, people were sort of attracted, you know, around the area. Um, so we're a very dispersed team.

[00:06:46] We have people all over, but we do the bulk of the group is in Naples. So the national pickleball center, everybody's in Naples, you know, when the U S open takes place, the core operating team is all in Naples. So. That's interesting. Did you play pickleball before this started? Uh, no, I, I hit a few times probably, but, um, you know, on our, on our guys trips and things like that, our family trips, there's a lot of pickleball now. So yeah, but not really prior to this.

[00:07:15] Wow. That's interesting. How has it been over the last four years watching what you guys have invested in? And it's kind of like your baby, right? You kind of anticipate it growing, but like, what's that journey been like for you? Um, you know, I think any entrepreneurial journey, there's the, the roller coaster of the highs, the lows and everything in between. And sometimes there's more of a one, you know, than another. Um, and you have to learn to sort of ride the,

[00:07:41] ride the middle if you can, um, and, you know, enjoy and celebrate the highs, but realize the lows are, um, hopefully temporary and, you know, you're going to swing back, but it'll correct or maybe overcorrect at times. And I think, you know, we've, we've seen all of that and the, the team being incredibly scrappy, um, you know, doing things that I don't think people thought we were going to be able to do, um, you know, growing in, in all sort of aspects, you know, from a,

[00:08:11] uh, fan participation, athlete participation, um, you know, obviously the, the business metrics, financials, um, as a result, uh, grow with those things, but that's never the goal. You know, the goal for us has always been, how do you create the best amateur experience? And when we focus on the amateur and we look at what can we do to build the amateur experience, everything else sort of follows that. So I think it's been really, um, you know, rewarding in the end to see the team

[00:08:40] coalesce around that, that goal of how do we, you know, create the, the, um, the best amateur experience, foster the growth of recreational play and, um, treat the amateurs like pros. We love the pros and we embrace the pros and we, you know, work closely with a lot of them, but, um, you know, having the amateur feel like they're playing at a pro level or a pro event and they're treated, you know, in a, in an incredible way is what we really strive for both at the national pickleball

[00:09:08] center and at the U S open. Yeah. I think it's an extraordinary place. Um, I've been a couple of times and I've, you know, been to the open when there was, you know, thousands of people there, uh, cheering each other on. I don't think there's anything else quite like that for an adult player. Right. I mean, I can't go out and join a basketball team and end up at the, uh, at the open. Right. Yeah. I mean, to, to step into a, you know, a venue of 60 plus courts and 60,000

[00:09:38] spectators and, you know, it's a, um, you know, incredibly busy, energetic environment, but then you get the call for, you know, you're on court 27 and, you know, the lights sort of dim around you hopefully. And you're, you know, you're locked in and you're focused and you realize that there's a whole group of people that are cheering for you, whether or not they're your direct friends or family, but spectators that they're into pickleball and, you know, they, they ride the

[00:10:04] points, both directions maybe. And they, you know, they're, they're, uh, cheering and screaming and, you know, your scores get entered digitally and, you know, it shows up on the app and, you know, you're, you continually, um, I think, feel that momentum of a tournament, which by the way is the exact same thing that Annalie Waters on the court next to you is, is doing, you know, her, she gets the text message, you know, shows up on court 44 and, you know,

[00:10:31] you're going through that, that same motion. Now, um, there's maybe a little skill difference between, uh, the matches, but, um, you know, outside of that, we really try to create that experience. How do you make it bigger and better? Like what's next? So bigger and better is also, I think, accompanied by the question of, um, to what end? So, you know, if we want to create the

[00:10:54] best amateur experience and give that incredible, um, you know, sort of feeling of competition and camaraderie and community, the, I think it needs to be coupled with, um, if you're doing that, let's say you added a thousand players. Um, you can't do that in the same amount of time. There's too many people we're already maxed out on, you know, we have 60 courts during the U S open.

[00:11:18] Um, you know, you need to have a additional days, which we get a lot of inquiries, you know, Hey, can you guys make this a 10 or 12 or 14 day event? Um, this year we added the, um, special Olympics for the first time. So, you know, we're adding things. We added the junior championships last year and continued it this year. We have, um, the largest wheelchair field. So it's a, there's sort of events

[00:11:42] within events that are, um, not only your amateur kind of standard events. So a longer tournament, you know, is one way to make it bigger. Um, a bigger stadium is another way to make it bigger. Uh, so more people can get the experience. Now, again, we're very careful of, um, not losing that magic of the U S open and the biggest pickleball party in the world. You know, we want it to be that

[00:12:08] festive, fun, you know, atmosphere. There's a lot of ideas and people who've come to us saying, you know, what if you do this or you take away that or you add this. And we, we say, that's great. And it's going to feel very, you know, kind of bland and like all the other tournaments that are out there every week of the year and nothing against those tournaments, but you know, we really want it to be, um, hallowed ground and, you know, a bucket list event, which is what we frequently

[00:12:39] expand, um, thoughtfully. And, you know, we are, um, this year we had over 7,000 people enter the lottery. So 7,000 people for 3,500 spots is hard. Um, we want more of those people to get in. We have an incredibly long wait list for people who want to have tickets and special VIP experiences. And so, you know, we know the demand is there. Um, and there's a lot of things that, you know,

[00:13:06] we're looking into in terms of, um, uh, growing, you know, sort of breadth and depth of the experience. And as a side note or relate directly related is the year round experience at the national pickleball center. So when you go there and, you know, what we're doing there to elevate the experience, what Justin and his team are doing to build the kind of day in day out, week in, week out, the leagues, the clinics, the Academy, the things that you can do. Um, I think it,

[00:13:33] it sort of wraps itself together to say, if you're a partner of ours, um, you can be reaching those people in a way that isn't only during the U S open it's, you know, 50 other weeks of the year. The reason that relates to, I think what you're saying is, um, the experience, if you're coming to the U S open, you may say, man, that was an incredible, um, uh, paddle. I got to demo or, you know, a cool partner that I got to experience, you know, where can I do that more? Well,

[00:14:03] if you're a year round member, or if you're there and you're, you know, come before or after the U S open, um, you know, we, we want to try to make that a continuous touch point with people. I love that. Um, I play a lot of tennis, not to say I do own a pickleball club, uh, but I, you know, love tennis in my life right now. And I can go to like the USTA national campus in Orlando and do lots of great programming and lessons, you know, for my adult game. And I think you guys

[00:14:31] offer the same great experience for pickleball, right? It's that year round feel that if I want a destination, why not come to Naples and hang out with you guys for a few days and play? Cause there's courts everywhere. There's people everywhere, always on your courts. I know. Yeah. I mean, it's incredible. And Justin, like he's, I met him last year. Uh, we went down and spent some time with him and just what a standup guy, just so passionate about like developing the

[00:14:59] player and his team. And I just really enjoyed meeting him and spending time with him. I couldn't agree more, you know, Justin and 14 pros that we have there for teaching, where you can do the one-on-one lessons, you can do the group lessons, you can do a clinic, you could do an academy sort of session of things over a period of time. Um, you could join a league, you know, we have a summer league, we have leagues that have a thousand plus people participating in

[00:15:23] them. So, you know, it's a really fun, um, community. And to your point, if it's, if it's about leveling up and you want to be in that sort of somewhere between the recreational and the pro player, and you want to be competitive, there's a lot of opportunities, um, you know, to be doing that. And I think, you know, sure, you could go anywhere, you go to your local park. Um, you know, so many places have courts available as you know. Um, and I think the question is, you know,

[00:15:52] what's right for you, you know, and if you want to be immersed in pickleball, um, the national pickleball center, I, you know, again, I know we're biased, but, um, as far as we know, it's the biggest facility in the world, hard to be, you know, going to a facility that has every court separately fenced, separately lit, um, you know, separately windscreen, like all the things that you want from an experience. Um, and then to get the top level instruction and, you know,

[00:16:21] the kind of things. So we have a lot of people who come on vacation and they'll say, I heard about this, you know, I can come play pickleball and they go over there and, you know, it's just like, whoa, you know, there's 2000 people here on any given day. Um, you know, I think it's a, uh, it's like you walk into a Mecca and you think, okay, I want to spend a few days here, you know, and, and I might need to in order to get enough court time, but, um, it's a, uh, it's a very fun

[00:16:49] environment for sure. Especially if you get involved with one of the leagues or one of the things that's kind of an ongoing, um, you know, if you do spend some time in the area, it's a, uh, it's a great community. So, you know, there's lots of pickleball clubs out there. I mean, one's new ones popping up every day. Um, what do you think the national pickleball center gets right day to day? Of course you have the Mecca, the tournament, right? But what, what kind of like a,

[00:17:15] a four, a six and eight court pickleball facility take away that you guys are doing right? Um, you know, I think the thing that we do, we, we talk with a lot of club owners around the country and a lot of club owners come and visit by the way, and both because they want to play and they might want to see how we do something. And we, you know, we like to learn from them as much as maybe they're trying to glean something and learn, um, from what we're doing. And I, I think that's part

[00:17:42] of the community, by the way, you know, it's still a infancy sport in a lot of ways, even though it's been all around for quite a while. Um, but in an organized way, you know, how do you keep members engaged? And that's a big deal that we spend a lot of time thinking about. Um, how do you keep them engaged with, uh, you know, different activities? It's not simply show up and play. Um, you know, there could be organized play. There could be, uh, mini tournaments that we do. We, you,

[00:18:10] there could be non pickleball things that we weave in to keep people having fun and, you know, seeing that there's a community here, because I think part of what we believe with pickleball is that it's such a, um, personal, uh, community driven sport that people really want to relate. They want to belong to something and pickleball gives them an opportunity to belong to something in many ways. You know, you may belong because of the league that you're in and the league

[00:18:38] that you're in could be the women's league, the men's league, the couples league, the kids league, the junior, you know, it could be, um, skill-based, it could be age-based. And I think that's so unique about pickleball. So you can come and, you know, you, you offer things in a way that caters to the audience you're trying to get to. You don't make them fit into your, you know, we do whatever advanced play all day, every day, or no structure at all. You know, we say, okay, we have buckets for

[00:19:06] people. They can, you know, figure out where they fit in best. Um, and you make it fun. And I think that's part of what we really try to do is, uh, you know, do fun events, do fun mixers, do fun social things that are all part of building that community. So that when you think I have an option, where do I want to go play a pickleball? Do I want to go play at the park? Do I want to go play at my friend's private club? Do I want to go play, you know, wherever you want to be the answer to that question.

[00:19:31] Um, where do I want to play? I want to play at the national pickleball center. You know, I want to play with my group, with my people and my people are there. So I love that engage them. Well, I think you're right too, because we have a lot of clubs now that are in a, an area and they're competing against four or five, six other clubs. And it's all about the community and, and what you just said, it's about the culture and the community that you're creating. Cause now when I think I want to go

[00:19:58] play pickleball, it's my people I want to go play with not necessarily at the facility. I want to go play with because the courts are the same, honestly. Right. Right. I mean, you know, we're, we're joking about, uh, schools and, you know, could I go play at the Duke pickleball courts or the UNC pickleball courts in the end, they're pickleball courts. Um, and you may say, well, you know, I'm an alumni, I'm going to go play at the one, but what you're probably going to do is go play with

[00:20:23] your people, even if it's maybe not quite the school you're rooting for. Um, you know, so, you know, you're going to pick based upon where your people are and it's what you do in life. I think, you know, you want to be part of something and people want a reason to relate to each other. And so you go where you're wanted. That's awesome. Well, I know that you've probably seen the news. There's been a lot of money, uh, being spent in a pickleball business in 2026 already. What do you think pickleball is going to look like in the next two to three years?

[00:20:54] I'm sure you, you, uh, at court reserve has a good opinion on that as well. Cause congrats on everything you guys have gone through recently as well. Um, you know, I think it's a, uh, continued evolution. Um, there's a lot of things over the last, you know, years and, you know, four years ago when we set out on this journey to acquire the U S open and, and build this company, it was incredible how every six months you could look back and say,

[00:21:20] gosh, it feels like years have gone by, you know, the amount of change that has so rapidly happened. And I think this is simply another, um, part of that, you know, page or chapter where we're going to, you know, go to the next chapter and say, you know, remember when that, you know, all that, whatever, you know, change to change took place. So I think, I think, you know, this,

[00:21:43] there's a lot of dollars coming in to focus on the pro tour and, um, you know, we, we love the pros, like I said, and we, we hope that the pro tour grows and thrives. Um, you know, we're a part of the pro conversation with us open and, you know, think that we showcase the best pros in the world. Um, the question is, you know, will the pro tour be the, the driving force of pickleball? Will amateurs

[00:22:11] be the driving force? Will they both have sort of their own place in the ecosystem? We, we think and hope that yes, both do. Um, we do believe amateurs drive the sport and it's because of the amateur that the sport really has, um, you know, sort of flourished and now can the pros sort of elevate and, you know, drag it up another level potentially. Um, which I really think is what some of this investment is, um, other investment though, that's going on, I think is about,

[00:22:41] you know, will the local clubs and the rec play and the leagues and, you know, there, there's a lot of stories that aren't necessarily, um, as, uh, headline making. And, you know, when you dive deep and you see some of these leagues that have proliferated across the U S and some that are, you know, merging and kind of, you know, buying up each other, trying to be, you know, mega leagues. Um, that's pretty cool. Um, that's all recreational player or semi pro

[00:23:08] player, or, you know, it kind of depends what they're catering to. Um, so I think you're going to continue to see growth in, in all aspects. Um, and I think you'll continue to see the amateur, um, probably benefit in a lot of ways from, you know, investment into facilities, investment into, um, equipment and manufacturing and, and, you know, sort of all boats rise, if you will. Um,

[00:23:33] if, uh, I think if the pro tour continues to grow, then I do think all boats rise as a result of that. Well, I do have a serious question for you. I know that pickleball is, uh, becoming very popular as a collegiate sport. Uh, we're seeing that more and more. So are you guys planning on having, uh, a collegiate, uh, part of that, like, uh, you know, kind of like the tennis, you know, when you play tennis, you go to USTA national campus, they have big playoffs and stuff. Are you going to root for

[00:24:00] Duke pickleball or Chapel Hill UNC pickleball when they come and play at the NPC? Isn't it just Carolina? It's, um, um, though, for sure. It's a, you know, you can look and there's different, um, collegiate rankings. And for a while, UNC Chapel Hill was the number one collegiate pickleball, um, which I didn't even realize. And, uh, and, and then you, you know, when you go to the

[00:24:26] facility, it's a really nice facility and you can, you know, sort of see what the colleges are investing and you see some colleges now starting to offer semi scholarships for pickleball. Um, you know, I know you didn't ask the question, but, um, could it be an NCAA sport? Could it be a Olympic sport? Um, sure. And, you know, I think it could be, and, you know, I know middle schools and high schools that are offering programs now and, uh, my daughter's high school and, you know, other

[00:24:54] neighboring high schools, you know, they're, they have pickleball. Um, there's a, a big tournament in one of local high schools next week and, uh, they have a couple of hundred players. So like, that's pretty cool to see. And it's amazing. You know, they'll, all the best ones will likely go to UNC Chapel Hill, but, um, uh, but yeah, I think collegiate pickleball will definitely continue to grow. I love that. I think it's amazing because it's a sport. My kids are in their early twenties

[00:25:22] and, you know, they grew up playing tennis, right? Because that was 10 years ago. And now they, they all can play pickleball and we, as a family can go out and play together. Um, and it's keeping that amateur spirit alive, right? Now you got families that can get out and play with their kids, grandmothers, grandfathers. I mean, it's just such a generational thing as much as a tennis lover as I am. I mean, I probably couldn't get out there and play with lots of different family members,

[00:25:48] uh, that we can with pickleball. And I think that's the, the, I still remember the first U S open four years ago, five years ago that I walked into not knowing anything really about the U S open other than, um, sort of what I had heard. And I remember that they said, you know, there's a four or five match here on court 33. You should check it out. Some pretty good players. And I walked over and I

[00:26:11] thought, are you, are you sure? You know, these are like kind of bigger, older people. Like, what do you mean four or five? And I started watching them and they were incredible. And I thought, this is so cool that, you know, it doesn't matter your age or gender, you know, background, whatever it is, um, pickleball, you know, appeals. And then you start at the U S open and, you know, me walking around saying, Oh wait, you know, here's where a bunch of 20 year olds are playing. Here's where a

[00:26:40] bunch of 70 year olds are playing. And, and sometimes they're playing together because they have younger partners. And, um, and I think that's just the coolest thing. That's one of the things that the U S open we've tried to say, we're very family friendly, meaning if, if husband, wife are playing, let's say, and one of them is older and one of them is younger. So they cross an age bracket. That's okay. We want you to play together. That's your normal partner. You know, if you,

[00:27:04] if a grandfather and a grandson want to play together and they can compete in the whatever bracket, we think that's amazing. And we want to foster that, um, and help that grow. I love it. Is there any more room to grow and build more courts at the national pickleball center? There is. Um, and, uh, we're very committed to Naples, Florida and, uh, Collier County has been a great partner of ours. Um, you know, we would like to expand. We think there's some really

[00:27:34] interesting opportunities, um, to grow there. So stay tuned on that. I love it. I love it. Well, thank you so much for spending some time with us today. Absolutely. Happy to do it. Thanks for having me. Thanks for listening to this podcast. If you'd like to learn more about how Court Reserve became the go-to club management software for racket and paddle sport clubs, come say hello over on our website. There's a link in the show notes.